Duration of some Paladin/Cleric Spells

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Thu May 27, 2004 3:31 pm

I don't know what can be done against the Cleric aspect (as I know they are plenty strong, and are technically the same spells as the paladin ones), but I think the duration on some of the more useful spells for paladins have been made useless.

I think a great spell is bless weapon. For one, it no longer adds the enhancement bonus (which I can understand), and now it lasts for like, 5 rounds. An extra 2d6 damage versus one racial group is NOT that overpowered. I can get halfway through a boss before it wears off. Paladins trade specialization and feats for saves, some immunities, and mostly self-buff spells. I just think the duration is terribly short for a very important paladin spell. Without that extra edge, there is very little that makes me able to handle the undead better than a fighter of my level besides my lay on hands and immunity to fear (which is still bugged anyway).

I don't suggest making it as long as the regular buffs (1hr/day), and it was REALLY long in basic NWN. Maybe increase the duration but decrease the damage? Maybe change it to 1 turn/level and take the damage down to 1d8 or 1d6.

Just a suggestion.

dond · Post by **dond** » Thu May 27, 2004 6:27 pm

i think it maybe 1 round/level. and rounds are short in ns4.

basically, get more lvls in paladin to have it last longer.
it's the same with most buffs in the cleric/mage line too

Evolving_AI · Post by **Evolving_AI** » Fri May 28, 2004 5:34 am

Summon Creature VIII

School: Conjuration
Components: V, S
Range: Touch
Area of Effect: Point
Duration: 24 Hours
Saving Throw: None

The caster summons a random greater elemental to be a faithful and loyal servant.

this is my complaint.. my summon 8 definitly doesn't last 24 hours

I'd even be happy to concede for 12.. currently the most I've seen is 3 hours.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri May 28, 2004 10:47 am

How about this? make Darkfire, magic weapon (and the other cleric one, that is better), and bless weapon, last like they are supposed to...

one hour per level.

I don't know why the durations of the cleric and paladin spells were nerfed, but it isn't that helpful. Sure clerics rock on this server (like they rocked on NS3). But stop nerfing the durations. I can understand the summons duration nerfing, mainly because you get some really awesome summons. But spells like darkfire, shouldn't be nerfed in duration. Thats just my two cents though. I don't know why those spells were nerfed, considering spells like call lightning are uber powerful, and spells like IGMS are also uber powerful. why are the cleric durations being hurt?

And...so what if clerics are unbalanced as opposed to a paladin or a fighter....thats the point of the cleric. He is the ultimate versatile support unit. He fights, he heals, he's everything in one...>THATS HIS JOB. I don't see why nerfing the classes is any way helpful to balance the game.

TastyTreat · Post by **TastyTreat** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:48 pm

Nerfing buff durations in general seem to be more of an annoyance than actually accomplishing any sort of balancing. This applies to both mage buffs and cleric buffs. As ATI mentioned before... nerfing durations of summons is understandable but nerfing buffs in this way just becomes an inconvenience.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Fri May 28, 2004 5:05 pm

My issue is I make a pally Build that uses Divine might/Divine Favor/ Divine Wrath to boost my AB and Damage for virtually one boss fight per rest. If it is an Undead one, I'm used to just using bless weapon, and even if the boss isn't dead and my divine skills have worn off, I can still rely on some extra damage.

Now, by the time i've sequenced Divine Might, Divine Wrath, Divine Favor (extended), and Bless Weapon (hopefulyl extended if I have the spell slots), the first used one has almost worn off. It really kills the point of being good versus undead enemies. Currently doing 3-8 points of damage with a level 14 paladin Vs a vampire warrior in duskhaven (and they regen!) is freaking ridiculous.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri May 28, 2004 5:10 pm

Lesser spell mantle on pots is really annoying. Lasts like 10 secs(exaggeration, but it's bad)

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri May 28, 2004 5:13 pm

exactly why nerfing the buff spell durations is no good. Im not asking for a huge unerfing of everything....but the buff spells shouldn't have their durations nerfed at all...for ANY class. As Iceman has explained....the other problem is that we are getting to the point that PnP used to have a problem with this. Feats are supposed to be nice, not necessary. Killing durations on buff spells makes extended metamagic a required feat, and -even then it doesn't help that much. Please....un-nerf BUFF (and buff spells only) duration limits. Please.

dond · Post by **dond** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:01 pm

ok, hopefully this is the last time im gonna respond to your 'unnerfing' whine (sorry i didnt bring any cheese

)

have you seen cleric buffs in action?
they can solo 7-10 faction guards (+ bosses) from any faction fully buffed. (i've done it and used only 1 heal pot...)
extended divine favour/divine power/battletide, divine might, aid/bless/prayer, greater magic weapon, darkfire, extended unholy/holy auras, stats spells, spell resistance, death ward, neg energy protection, the armor increasing spells. with those up(on my quickbar

), you're a walking god. nothing in melee can survive a fully buffed cleric, including dragons.

having it last 1 turn a level would be insane. a lvl 20 cleric with buffs 1 turn a level could do ns city, then do melencia then Sleeth on the same set of spells.......wtf?

QuickLightning · Post by **QuickLightning** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:28 pm

Durations aren't the problem...all it creates is an annoyance where ya have to rest a lot...if rest timers were in place, it would make people use the buffs only when they need them...but they're not, so timers do really nothing. The thing ya need to do is weaken the buffs themselves, not their durration.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Sat May 29, 2004 12:48 am

QuickLightning wrote:Durations aren't the problem...all it creates is an annoyance where ya have to rest a lot...if rest timers were in place, it would make people use the buffs only when they need them...but they're not, so timers do really nothing. The thing ya need to do is weaken the buffs themselves, not their durration.

Exactly. Such as bless weapon being 1 turn/level (like bless/aid) and making it an extra 1d6 damage instead of 2d6. I'd much rather take this exchange. Especially since it only does damage to 1 racial group.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Sat May 29, 2004 12:58 am

dond wrote:having it last 1 turn a level would be insane. a lvl 20 cleric with buffs 1 turn a level could do ns city, then do melencia then Sleeth on the same set of spells.......wtf?

None of the areas you mentioned have undead monsters. Bless weapon does +2d6 divine damage to undead creatures ONLY. The original spell lasted 1 minute/level. It is now 1 round/level. That is 1/10 the duration for a spell that does extra damage to one specific racial group.

Bless and aid last 1 turn/level.

If you have a problem with cleric buffs, that's the problem. That is the point of being a cleric/paladin instead of a fighter. Unbuffed, generally a paladin/cleric is less useful than say, a fighter/WM. With their buffs they get a bit better. And at least in Daeron I noticed the fighter guards cast Dispell. And they're CR 18, meaning they cast dispell at a 18th Level caster (paladin) check.

Once dispelled, the usefulness goes down the crapper. Nerfing the duration on buffs causes a spellcaster to either kill less per rest, OR (the more likely scenario) get halfway through a mob, become tender, and get the snot kicked out of them.

This happened with my paladin. Due to low duration on (you guessed it!) bless weapon, i had taken a greater vampire down to near death, when lo and behold my damage bonus quit, so i was doing possibly 3-15 damage a round, slowing down my killing until the vampire got a critical while i was at low life and did 48 + 25 from another attack, killing me. Had I still had this damage bonus, most likely I would Have finished him off before this happened.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Sat May 29, 2004 2:14 am

All right, I am withdrawing from this conversation. And by the way DonD in order to be a whiner, I just have to complain....unfortunately for you though I actually provide suggestions and ways to fix problems....imagine that...

dond · Post by **dond** » Sat May 29, 2004 2:42 am

ATI wrote:All right, I am withdrawing from this conversation. And by the DonD in order to be a whiner, I just have to complain....unfortunately for you though I actually provide suggestions and ways to fix problems....imagine that...

by what? suggesting to go back to bioware default and undo 300+ custom scripts for spells that took 1 year or so for us to finally see in action? to go against the very basic vision the dev team has put out?
all you've been saying is un-nerf etc etc. no ideas, just unnerf back to bio's default.

if you can suggest a certain way for a certain spell to work, then suggest it! stop saying unnerf.

and iceman, what weapon are you using? a sword? you do know that undead have natural slashing resists right? switch to a hammer/morning for goodness sakes when facing them. you'll be doing 4 times as much damage.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Sat May 29, 2004 4:07 am

actually use a mace...everyone can use those and maces bludgeon the hell out of the undead

Still read my other posts, i can't re write everything I say. Do a search on me, i have around 10 posts about how to fix the problem of unnerfing, with spell changes, and item ideas. They are all there.

Funk and Wagnals...can you believe they write the dictionary?