hiding exploit?

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:09 am

Put more points in INT! There, problem solved.

vadvaro · Post by **vadvaro** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:51 am

plus spot is not a class skill for about half of the classes.

i just think there should be more than one defense against this attack.

how do the offical d&d rules handle this? if spells allow someone to see a hiding attacker, then there is your answer on how to decide this.

just because you can change something doesn't mean you should.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:09 pm

Additional spells for an arcane caster - Clairaudience/Clairvoyance boosts Spot and Listen skills by 10. Field spells work nicely. Having an active light source used to add a penalty to the Hide, so hitting a HiPS user with a quickened Light spell may also help (haven't had the opportunity to test that one yet).

Billiard · Post by **Billiard** » Tue May 25, 2004 11:30 pm

You can always fight fire with fire - add a level of SD to your character as well.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Tue May 25, 2004 11:41 pm

I wouldn't do that personally, would need to spend 2x the pts needed to catch someone using hips, and then if you wanted to see, it'd take more of course. Still, it would be a nice advantage, unless you're using fullplate and a shield :p

Llew Silverhand · Post by **Llew Silverhand** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:42 pm

I've heard a lot of people saying that the way HiPS works is an exploit, however I completely disagree. (yes, i am a shadowdancer, and no, I don't use a bow) Now why would HiPS be considered unbalanced? I fail to see any sort of logical reason for this to be true. Character building is about making choices, if you happen to have low spot then you've got a high something else, it balances out. If you happened to not be able to see a character, well, sorry, but tough. It would make about as much sense for me to start declaring that death magic is an exploit, because, hey, my fortitude énd will saves can't cut it for most of the higher level spells. Also, there's also at least two other things you have to realize, number 1: HiPS is pretty much the ONLY useful thing you get from being a shadowdancer. The summoned Shadow, as it now stands, is pathetically low level, and the shadow evade can only be used three times a day, and isn't really worth leveling up your SD to have Shadow evade be of any decent help, it increments it's enhancement resist once every five levels, well heck, that's usefull!
The only limit I think would maybe be worth implementing, would be that requiring you to have 5 levels of rogue(or limit it to rogues, or something...) to be a shadowdancer, because ok, I can see how a 18 sorc/1 shadowdancer could be somewhat unfair, however, being a rogue, i get very little hp, and as rogue is really a dex class, you don't have high strength either. I need my HiPS to be able to compete, I do relatively little damage unless i can get in sneak attacks, and even then I do far less than say a fighter or cleric of the same level...
Also, reason number2: how many shadowdancers have you seen? I doubt there's more than ten shadowdancers on all 4 servers...
HiPS is quite fine the way it is thank you, and there really is no compelling reason to change it.

(sorry if my tone in this post sounds irritated, but I really can't see any problem with it the way it is now, any changes and, as far as i can foresee, rogues would be practically useless.... this finally gives people incentive to play stealthily)

vadvaro · Post by **vadvaro** » Wed May 26, 2004 8:19 pm

i don't think it is an exploit. it takes advantage of a classes natural strengths. however, a few natural strengths in other classes have been affected, so who knows. maybe no one will be happy until we all are playing the same type of charactor - the ones the devs want us to play.

maybe, i am cynical and haven't really dived into NS4 as much as I'd like, but I spent a lot of time in NS3 and I know that certain classes and builds were better off; not because they were naturally better, but because of the tweaks made in the mod made them easier to use.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Wed May 26, 2004 9:40 pm

If guards can see llew, then you can too.

There's a new pro-hips slogan for you

Llew Silverhand · Post by **Llew Silverhand** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:28 pm

Hehe, listen to Carr everyone, now who wants to make the HiPS campaign buttons and stickers?

dond · Post by **dond** » Thu May 27, 2004 6:46 pm

well, non wis races can't keep up with seeing the dexers.

no matter how many points you put into spot/listen, you wont see them (unless you have equal wisdom to their dex, and only druids/clerics would have that)

the good news though, is because they're stealthy, it'll take a while to kill you and it's a slow process (since they'll be rehiding to avoid you

). so just run away! annoying yes, but it works

Slice177 · Post by **Slice177** » Thu May 27, 2004 7:15 pm

umm yeah im new here and didnt want to read all of what you guys said sorry but what i do know is that when he appears to attack you right click him and hit the sword (attack) and when he hides it will still follow him as if he wasnt hiding you do need anything in spot or anything like that and if this does work right click him and wait till he hides then hit attack have fun

Slice177 · Post by **Slice177** » Thu May 27, 2004 7:17 pm

umm woops i dont know how to edit yet (post to me how please if you can) i ment to say that you DONT NEED spot or anything like that. sorry