Suggestions welcome

[mining]

Hey everyone, sorry for vanishing for ... a while.

I'll be around for at least a month continuously, and hopefully fairly consistently after that (though the past few years make me reluctant to make strong claims here).

Currently on my immediate radar:
- Some minor spell improvements / tweaks.
- Fixing some item level bugs
- Fixing the githyanki double sword to actually be worth using
- Nerfing AO job token, probably
- Lots of backend stuff...
- ... so that we can do stuff like nerf stun / HIPS properly.
- PVP XP, so that lowbie PVP is a little more rewarding (but not the #1 way to hit 40 )

I'm not expecting this to use up all my time, so I'd be keen to hear any ideas / suggestions.

[Lokey]

NC token through UV. Possibly True Seeing through UV so it works as intended. Stupid engine.

[mining]

NC token through UV. Possibly True Seeing through UV so it works as intended. Stupid engine.

Elaborate?

[Tarias]

Some ideas I've had during the time I played here (some more vague than others):

- Give spellcasters like clerics and wizards some way to "save" spellbooks. I imagine this working similar to the /buff commands. I'd like to be able to type things like "/save_spellbook "Elysium"", "/load_spellbook "Purge the NC heretics"" and "/list_spellbooks" instead of manually redoing all my spells. Obviously this is a luxury feature for lazy people, but it would be awesome.
- Create an incentive for endgame PvP other than relic wars. Perhaps some arena where rewards (Books? Items? Prize room?) can be earned. This will likely be somewhat prone to abuse, but I feel like part of the reason there is so little PvP is because it provides no progression of any kind (compared to for example leveling a toon or farming some gear).
- Make endgame boss drops more consistent. This is a very personal opinion, and other people might have different philosophies about this, but some of the most frustrating moments I've had in this game were bosses dropping [censored] loot. After taking most of a day on a weekend to kill Lolth with a few others, in order to get a good plate and a ring, all it drops is a silly dagger. I agree that good loot shouldn't be easy to get, but without access to EPW (which most European players don't realistically have) killing the bosses that drop this loot is already a hard enough task as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure if bosses always dropping their full loot table would be the best solution in an ideal world, but on the other hand most veteran players (which I don't consider myself to be by the way) already have most of this gear anyways, and more of these items would allows newer players to catch up a bit more quickly.
- Improve throwing axes. Reduce the weight. I can't recall what else what was wrong with them, but I remember them being garbage.
- Fix Stone to Flesh so that it can be cast on doors to open locks. According to wiki it opens locks, and it works on chests, but for some reason I can't seem to cast it on doors.
- Give weapon and armor crafting some love. I would love to see bosses from the planes drop some sort of essence that can be used to infuse crafted weapons and armor with some elemental properties. For example: Plane of fire boss has a chance to drop essence of fire, which can be used to craft a weapon with xdy fire damage, or an armor with z% fire immunity.

I'm sure I will think of some other things later, so this post will likely end up with a bunch of edits.

[Ogami]

Its nice to see our young dev having this enthusiasm, we all remember his waving the dev/dm wand (because he is dev or dm depending on the situation!) to be an impartial ruler! And to enhance the playing experience with magical nerfs! Have nerfs ever affected the server's polulation ? Who knows!


But new things sure gave an incentive to building toons!

So my suggestion is (actually recycling an old) : PURE ROGUE BONUSES!!!
I'm sure now he is wise enough to strip off his the hostility towards pure classes and give everyone pure rogue bonus. Yes! It's a great idea, it will certainly give players an incentive to return building here.
And on a second thought, hips indoors kapawn suggested wont be bad at all considering rogue fighter sds can hips anywhere.



(O.T.: When I asked you to officially return to your fon/syn gang I was serious, populating the server will make a LOT more difference than messing with the code nowadays, try to build more cot shiters and pm, they have a huge variety of effective combinations you haven't tried yet!)

[mining]

Give spellcasters like clerics and wizards some way to "save" spellbooks... [snip]

I'd like to do this. We might have the tools we need to do that with nwnx, and maybe we can also give caster druids a little QoL improvement alongside it.

Make endgame boss drops more consistent. This is a very personal opinion, and other people might have different philosophies about this... [snip]

I understand the frustration, but gear inflation is a problem as is . Keeping everyone on the server from having every toon in lolth rings (and thus people actually wanting to farm the planes) is relevant here. Generally I think we're aiming for ~1-2 out of 3 possible items dropping, with occasional full drops. Maybe we can mitigate the veteran advantage with rust monsters or something .

Improve throwing axes. Reduce the weight. I can't recall what else what was wrong with them, but I remember them being garbage.

Throwables tend to be in a weird spot. I agree with this, and would like them all to be a little nicer; Lokey do you know what our options are here?

Fix Stone to Flesh so that it can be cast on doors to open locks. According to wiki it opens locks, and it works on chests, but for some reason I can't seem to cast it on doors.

I think this is a 2da targetting limitation. Lokey's more familiar with this than me, so s/o to him, but I'll add it to a "check it out" list later.

Give weapon and armor crafting some love.

Maybe, but longer term target. The crafting system's a little old/fragile/buggy, and could probably use a rewrite as well as tweaking.


Re: Pure rogue bonuses, eh. I'm not a huge fan of pure X bonuses.

[Ogami]

I'm not a "huge" fan of pure x bonuses too but this does not mean that a lot of players aren't. Pure classes are such a big part of ns4, ignoring fighter barb and paladin, even bard and cleric get pure bonuses. "Pure" prestige classes like dwd palemaster and cot 30 get very nice bonuses as well.
It's not uncommon to find pure bonuses in other servers. I've seen a variant or two of the pure barbarian.

About the crafting etc, I've always posted about fixing axes price, its a huge investment people just prefer to buy skull splitter in the planar store. And this is probably ok, unless you are involved in a long pvp session. Weight its not that big issue, because if you want to make the axe really more effective than a sling you'll have the strength to carry. I remember only Chris having a fighter focused in throwing axes, havent seen anyone else. Too bad because it's fun.

Anyway, there are more bugs in the crafting system to fix, some items are not in database so you craft them spend the money and they arent equippable, they should be hand axe and spear.

[Tarias]

I understand the frustration, but gear inflation is a problem as is . Keeping everyone on the server from having every toon in lolth rings (and thus people actually wanting to farm the planes) is relevant here. Generally I think we're aiming for ~1-2 out of 3 possible items dropping, with occasional full drops.

Don't you think people would be wanting to farm the planes more if boss drops were somewhat guaranteed? I know I'd be much more motivated to do lolth if I knew a ring was guaranteed to drop! Also keep in mind that this isn't exactly a solo operation. Even while multi logging like mad men, it takes like 3-4 people. If you count like 2-3 hours per run, that's still a lot of time invested to get 2 lolth rings on a toon.

Maybe we can mitigate the veteran advantage with rust monsters or something .

I'm sure many unsuspecting veterans will be happy to see their beloved unique shinies crumble to dust In all seriousness though, I think at this point taking things away from people won't solve any issues, it will just piss people off. I do think that the veteran advantage is something to be looked at if the aim is to attract new players.

[mining]

I understand the frustration, but gear inflation is a problem as is . Keeping everyone on the server from having every toon in lolth rings (and thus people actually wanting to farm the planes) is relevant here. Generally I think we're aiming for ~1-2 out of 3 possible items dropping, with occasional full drops.

Don't you think people would be wanting to farm the planes more if boss drops were somewhat guaranteed? I know I'd be much more motivated to do lolth if I knew a ring was guaranteed to drop! Also keep in mind that this isn't exactly a solo operation. Even while multi logging like mad men, it takes like 3-4 people. If you count like 2-3 hours per run, that's still a lot of time invested to get 2 lolth rings on a toon.

Hrmm, unsure. What do others think?

I'm not a "huge" fan of pure x bonuses too but this does not mean that a lot of players aren't. Pure classes are such a big part of ns4, ignoring fighter barb and paladin, even bard and cleric get pure bonuses. "Pure" prestige classes like dwd palemaster and cot 30 get very nice bonuses as well.

"Pure" prestige classes like dwd palemaster and cot 30 get very nice bonuses as well.

These type of "pure" bonuses are fine. The type where you can only build 40 X, and anything between [dip] and [40] is a mistake. There's very few (albeit a few) valid barb/fighter builds between 8ish and 40, and even pal only manages to shine a little more because pal is a great class by default. Cleric, wiz, etc. also show this trend. Rogue as is does get a solid 1d6 sneak per 2 levels, but shitty epic feat progression and poor preepic BAB makes it hard to justify more than ~29 levels of it.

[Ogami]

Rogue as is does get a solid 1d6 sneak per 2 levels, but shitty epic feat progression and poor preepic BAB makes it hard to justify more than ~29 levels of it.

exactly, more than 29 levels of it isnt justifiable, this is the same principle that guided previous devs into making pal fighter and barb bonuses.
I also want to explain why this might attract more players, 1) Many people liked the idea, even those you cant suspect of 2) Ao is missing a cheap hipser, yep. Many people like the easy way to pk. Personally I'm not a fan of sd, in over 100 toons i've only 3 of em and i really made em to fill this gap. But this isnt for many other people. I cant say no I disagree to anything just because I dont like it. The server isnt mine, it isnt your too Someone paying bills, we gotta make it good for everyone.

About the drop rate of bosses, I agree it ok as is. Good groups of players that plan carefully the farming should be able to farm the boss over and over till they get the ring etc. Personally I farmed pelor countless times but so far I never had its armor, is this a problem? No.
Also I think the frustration of not finding the ring can be only with lolth, because it takes a hour to get there, other bosses are really faster to farm.

[Midterm]

I understand the frustration, but gear inflation is a problem as is . Keeping everyone on the server from having every toon in lolth rings (and thus people actually wanting to farm the planes) is relevant here. Generally I think we're aiming for ~1-2 out of 3 possible items dropping, with occasional full drops. Maybe we can mitigate the veteran advantage with rust monsters or something .

End gear inflation a problem? May I suggest... the Crafting Lottery!

1. Make a {Unique} crafting forge at the end of a boss map. Maybe certain bosses affect the type of outcome? i.e. Forest home weighs towards Acid damage/immunities, Celestia weighs towards Divine damage/immunities
2. Requires you have mastered a certain crafting profession.
3. To use, you put in an item you wish to upgrade with a {Unique} property.
4. (Optional) you may put multiples of the same item to have a better chance of obtaining a better unique. Maybe not for fletching?
5. Craft - with an associated xp and gold cost.
6. (Optional) Add a crafting cooldown so that people can't camp the crafting forge. Maybe not for fletching?
7. If you don't like the unique, you have the option of always using the Avendell Forge.

[mining]

I understand the frustration, but gear inflation is a problem as is . Keeping everyone on the server from having every toon in lolth rings (and thus people actually wanting to farm the planes) is relevant here. Generally I think we're aiming for ~1-2 out of 3 possible items dropping, with occasional full drops. Maybe we can mitigate the veteran advantage with rust monsters or something .

End gear inflation a problem? May I suggest... the Crafting Lottery!

1. Make a {Unique} crafting forge at the end of a boss map. Maybe certain bosses affect the type of outcome? i.e. Forest home weighs towards Acid damage/immunities, Celestia weighs towards Divine damage/immunities
2. Requires you have mastered a certain crafting profession.
3. To use, you put in an item you wish to upgrade with a {Unique} property.
4. (Optional) you may put multiples of the same item to have a better chance of obtaining a better unique. Maybe not for fletching?
5. Craft - with an associated xp and gold cost.
6. (Optional) Add a crafting cooldown so that people can't camp the crafting forge. Maybe not for fletching?
7. If you don't like the unique, you have the option of always using the Avendell Forge.

I'm not sure about the specifics, but I do really like the idea of having a gear sink that feels good to participate in.

[Tarias]

I understand the frustration, but gear inflation is a problem as is . Keeping everyone on the server from having every toon in lolth rings (and thus people actually wanting to farm the planes) is relevant here. Generally I think we're aiming for ~1-2 out of 3 possible items dropping, with occasional full drops. Maybe we can mitigate the veteran advantage with rust monsters or something .

End gear inflation a problem? May I suggest... the Crafting Lottery!

1. Make a {Unique} crafting forge at the end of a boss map. Maybe certain bosses affect the type of outcome? i.e. Forest home weighs towards Acid damage/immunities, Celestia weighs towards Divine damage/immunities
2. Requires you have mastered a certain crafting profession.
3. To use, you put in an item you wish to upgrade with a {Unique} property.
4. (Optional) you may put multiples of the same item to have a better chance of obtaining a better unique. Maybe not for fletching?
5. Craft - with an associated xp and gold cost.
6. (Optional) Add a crafting cooldown so that people can't camp the crafting forge. Maybe not for fletching?
7. If you don't like the unique, you have the option of always using the Avendell Forge.

I love this idea, but I feel like there should be a chance to lose (the item you're gambling)! Otherwise it won't really do anything against item inflation.

[mining]

I understand the frustration, but gear inflation is a problem as is . Keeping everyone on the server from having every toon in lolth rings (and thus people actually wanting to farm the planes) is relevant here. Generally I think we're aiming for ~1-2 out of 3 possible items dropping, with occasional full drops. Maybe we can mitigate the veteran advantage with rust monsters or something .

End gear inflation a problem? May I suggest... the Crafting Lottery!

1. Make a {Unique} crafting forge at the end of a boss map. Maybe certain bosses affect the type of outcome? i.e. Forest home weighs towards Acid damage/immunities, Celestia weighs towards Divine damage/immunities
2. Requires you have mastered a certain crafting profession.
3. To use, you put in an item you wish to upgrade with a {Unique} property.
4. (Optional) you may put multiples of the same item to have a better chance of obtaining a better unique. Maybe not for fletching?
5. Craft - with an associated xp and gold cost.
6. (Optional) Add a crafting cooldown so that people can't camp the crafting forge. Maybe not for fletching?
7. If you don't like the unique, you have the option of always using the Avendell Forge.

I love this idea, but I feel like there should be a chance to lose (the item you're gambling)! Otherwise it won't really do anything against item inflation.

I /think/ the idea is that you might put in e.g. 4 items, but only ever get the 1 back.

Of course, we also want to avoid the case where everyone eventually has a unique Aoa belt w/ +10 disc lol, so the gambling idea would need to be pretty high risk.

[Lokey]

There are very minor spellcasting engine changes you can make server-side only, target type isn't one of them. It was abandoned and Knock made better (which sadly is in a good cleric domain). Possibly if cast on an item it'll work like knock, I forget.

We could remove the skill adding/changing portion of the Unique function easily for crafting. The problem I had when I looked at it was it's usually the skill changes that matter, there's a low chance of useful feats showing up but they tend to be the class pre-reqs you have to take anyway.

I tend to think if there's only a few end-game gear load-outs, that's a gear problem not a drop rate problem. I know Abyss stuff is very under-whelming but not sure where to take it to make it useful for example.

I also lean against random for crafting, it shouldn't be a patience test because I'm not going to play test that