NS4 going PvM only?

[Bargeld]

I would have preferred to pick that up and trade it back for something. That was an honest loss for both of us.

[mining]

Oh right. Fix that exploit too mining or I quit

Honestly I'm interested in doing anything that'll make ns; more fun for everyone.

[Ajantis.]

Well, regardless of the results of last night's pvp match between us, Bargeld, you set a dangerous precedence while at the same time asking a question as to why there is disdain for pvp.

If you expect a pvp battle to end with nothing more lost than one's dignity, the answer to that is "no." Not when there are players intent to spam disarm until you've transitioned the screen.

With great power comes great responsibility, (and to know when its appropriate to use it and when it's not fun). Whether the actions were legal or an exploit are inconsequential really.

If you've had the relics for a day or so, and after an hour of epic "good fights" you've lost them, let someone else have the relics for a change, they've earned it.

Some things aren't a game developer's ultimate responsibility to manage.

[Bargeld]

You have to be kidding me! We had the relics for about 3 hours, I retrieved all of them myself solo. You even logged to defend NC in that same session when I took it. Spirit of the relics doesn't come into this at all.

You had 2 players there and I was solo. If you see yourself get disarmed, it's not the disarmer's responsibility to keep track of your weapon. On numerous occasions myself, I've sacrificed winning the battle just to pick up a fallen comrade's or my own disarmed weapon in enemy territory. The fact that you saw your own disarm and left the map yourself doesn't help your case. Your comrade also left the map. I even transed back as soon as I hit the other side in the hopes that the map hadn't respawned and lost the weapon. If it's that important to you, drop your offense AND defense, bend over and grab the weapon yourself and take the hit and die. At least you kept your weapon.

I was using the disarmer because AORK had 7-9 toons parked right in that same spot, killing us as we respawned over and over. I figured the best way to stop that cycle was to slowly but surely disarm every one of them until they HAD to leave and rest. Or they died. I disarmed every single toon there except for Jaer who saw the danger for what it was and smartly avoided it. Out of all those toons, the only weapon that dropped and I was able to recover was a single darkblade from Chris. They either grabbed their own as they dropped or they didn't drop. I'll also add that an experienced player knows who the disarmers are and when they are up against them and they know to swap to a less valuable weapon or none at all. As a monk with kama, you would definitely have that quickslotted and should have put it away.

You've been playing more than long enough to know all these things. I won't say I'm sorry you lost your weap to trans, but I will grant that it was an unfortunately loss. I hate to see weapons go to waste because I always offer them back for a usually very wimpy trade to worthy opponents. That's more of an RP thing to me, to make the enemy submit that he lost it fair and to make him give something up due to it. But I'll trade it back to most players, and you would have been one of them. That's why I find your sentiments and accusations so ridiculous. Get pissed all you want, but it's ultimately NOT my responsibility to watch where weapons drop.

[Ajantis.]

you misunderstand me. I'm not pissed i lost a weapon. I have more. This isn't about me or you, its more of an example of pvp as a whole and what any new player can expect, and why they would be inclined to not want to do that again.


Well, I take that back, I guess I'm pointing out the irony of spam-disarming while you are asking why players on NS4 aren't coming back for more pvp...

...and that's only because it just happened. A couple days ago I might have had a different take on the subject.

[Rufio]

I can get you another kama if you'd like AJ, assuming the one you lost wasn't a unique item. I would like to see disarm disabled due to one particular disarm bug that gives an unfair advantage to the disarmer (this isn't an exploit per se, because it happens on all disarm attempts) unless it can be somehow fixed, but try not to let that spoil pvp.


I agree with some of what is being said. It is a little annoying when you spend all this time capturing relics and can never actually level with them because they will be gone as soon as you log out of your defender. It would be nice to have each relic locked in place for an hour after capturing (this should probably only work if a runner goes directly from one cradle to the next without dropping it to prevent exploiting this with re-caps or relic transfers). I know this issue doesn't hinder pvp in the heat of battle, but it can discourage some players from initiating relic combat in the first place. Keep in mind that if each relic is locked in place for an hour, that doesn't mean that relic raiding is just going to be a 10 minute blitzkrieg followed by 1 hour of deadtime. It takes a while to capture all 7 relics when defenders are present, and by the time one side gets them all, the hour timer on the first relic captured will be close to expiring.

I also agree with regard to dual loggers, I don't think I have anything to add there.

I expressed this concern to mining elsewhere, but I find that pvp has mostly boiled down to a few particular effective build types. It would be nice to see some classes given new abilities to mix things up, particularly to some of the non-casting classes to give them more combat options. I'd also like to see pure-class bonuses available to all builds with some tweaks to account for balance. Make the stronger abilities available to higher and higher levels to prevent worrisome class combinations and put the best abilities at level 40 to keep the pure builds viable.

[Shadowalker]

Multi boxin in pvp.. bad.

Multi boxin in pvm.. good.

Multi boxin in pvm+pvp.. bad. (PvM and multi login for PvP, while saving PvM zones. Pick one and live with it.)

Ultimatiums.. bad.

Communications.. good.

Wipe for game of this maturity.. bad.



.

[Deadeyes1]

The problem is not pvp, the problem is what it has been for the last eight years. Every time the dev's make a change to the game it narrows the window to explote the game. Multi boxing is a choice, not a problem. If someone pays for the codes and spends money on the game then let them play. The one and only problem i can see is every time SlMa gets its head handed to them they whine to anyone that will listen how unfair everything is, how nothing works for them, and they need this, that, and the other to make the game fair. If you want pvp it is not hard to find, the problem is you don't want pvp, you want to bully ppl. its never one on one, always three and four sl toons running around screaming in shout taking the fun out of it. And for the record, on several occations you, and your faction Sl Ma have been asked to watch their language in shout, several ppl now have little kids that can read and like to watch the game as their dad or mom play.


But as long as you want to talk about tokens, why is it Ma tokens are undispellable? Bargel likes to make it sound like they have nothing and everything is stacked against Slma but it s not, and as far as TCNC go, they have plenty of players at times just like all the other factions do, the real problem is "WE" are never on at the same time to have good pvp. Plus a lot of the ppl in slma are alos in the TcNc faction so depending on what u want to play is who uyou will see on at anyone time.

Another thing you have to have in order to have good pvp, Once you start fighting.... YOU HAVE TO STAY ON THE SCREEN ALIVE LONG ENOUGH TO HAVE A FIGHT !

the constnt running off screen coming back fully healed while two of your buddies continue to attack one toon ? and still you whine. One last thing why are you posting six and seven times under one segment ? Make a point move on. Its not like they do not have to hear you whine in IRC all night and day, Then we have to hear you in shout all night and day. In fact lock shout and i think a lot of ppl would just quiet cause they couldn't whine out loud.


So let the Dev's and Dm's alone for oh lets say a month without your "advice/input/ whines/demands/ insights" come raid while there are some Aorkl ppl around insteadof waiting two dyas to raid when half of us are asleep and we will be glad to kill you all you want. We are not hard to find just touch a diviner and see where the relics are, and you will find a real good fight easy enough.; but thats not really what you want is it Bargel ? So i will not hold my breath, waiting on you and yours to show up.

[mining]

I'm pretty certain all of the job tokens are undispellable. If any aren't, PM me with details.

[silontprotecter]

So let the Dev's and Dm's alone for oh lets say a month without your "advice/input/ whines/demands/ insights"

The one and only problem i can see is every time SlMa gets its head handed to them they whine to anyone that will listen how unfair everything is, how nothing works for them, and they need this, that, and the other to make the game fair.

the constnt running off screen coming back fully healed while two of your buddies continue to attack one toon ?

seems

legit

bro.

[Monkey]

Multi boxing is a choice, not a problem. If someone pays for the codes and spends money on the game then let them play.

Most experienced and skilled players recognize that multi-boxing makes the game less fun. It represents an unfair advantage for multi-boxers while the quality of play decreases with one person trying to control multiple toons.

Those who exploit multi-boxing disrespect the game, their fellow players, DMs and Developers. I don't think that is their intention, but until we have a Commandment stating a clear policy on multi-boxing, we'll continue to have people rationalizing their abuses.

[Amoenotep]

there are alot of these in a lot of this thread

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

[nwnnsw]

Wait a minute...

By my count we had about 10 people on that day.

Jaer, Rev, Tru3, Trouble, Arsin, James, Light, Bear, Gavin, and Storm.

Which of these people are constantly multi-logging?

Which of these players log buffing toons?

What are these other exploits you speak of?

Hate us because we are a well organized team but, seriously, get your facts straight before you make false accusations.

It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

[MrAsimov]

By my count we had about 10 people on that day.

Jaer, Rev, Tru3, Trouble, Arsin, James, Light, Bear, Gavin, and Storm.

Which of these people are constantly multi-logging?

Which of these players log buffing toons?

I can't put all of those names to logins, but lets be clear. Korr was there as well and he is always multi logged. Also, at least one of the people if not more on that list, that I do recognize, multi rather often and I'm sure would be willing to tell you and anybody else if asked. And all of those people log buffers at various times, one of the main reason for multi logging is to buff.

If all of those people were logged at the time there were actually over 13 AORK raider/defender toons on and by my count that is actually a more accurate number then the 9 mentioned anyway.

Hate us because we are a well organized team but, seriously, get your facts straight before you make false accusations

That, to be brutally honest, has got to be the most humourous thing I have read in the past few days.

It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

And if you and deadeyes continue to make post like the last couple, this quote should probably be at the beginning so we know what you are trying to do.

[weasel423]

By my count we had about 10 people on that day.

Jaer, Rev, Tru3, Trouble, Arsin, James, Light, Bear, Gavin, and Storm.

Which of these people are constantly multi-logging?

Which of these players log buffing toons?

I can't put all of those names to logins, but lets be clear. Korr was there as well and he is always multi logged. Also, at least one of the people if not more on that list, that I do recognize, multi rather often and I'm sure would be willing to tell you and anybody else if asked. And all of those people log buffers at various times, one of the main reason for multi logging is to buff.

If all of those people were logged at the time there were actually over 13 AORK raider/defender toons on and by my count that is actually a more accurate number then the 9 mentioned anyway.

Hate us because we are a well organized team but, seriously, get your facts straight before you make false accusations

That, to be brutally honest, has got to be the most humourous thing I have read in the past few days.

It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

And if you and deadeyes continue to make post like the last couple, this quote should probably be at the beginning so we know what you are trying to do.