Solars and everything else

[Lokey]

Wait til people finally figure out what to make in AO if you think you're in trouble now

[Snookz Eaglin]

Just want to add that solars are smaller in size, from my experience it makes a difference - balors spend a lot of time waiting in line or trying to reach the opponent.

[mining]

Just want to add that solars are smaller in size, from my experience it makes a difference - balors spend a lot of time waiting in line or trying to reach the opponent.

Well, two bladed sword. Blocks enemies but also blocks itself.

[mining]

Anyway, this is what I refer to when I talk about the imbalance between factions:

[Daltian]

Hond, it's great how you complain a lot and yet have no clue at how things work. Please learn game mechanics before you try to change them. You cant throw all NC/TC strengths in one barrel and make one super toon with all pros and no cons. One toon wont be both cot/pally, have stunning fist, great disc, great saves, crit immunity, high AC, divine might damage, have PDK present and so on. The fact that you fail fighting those toons doesn't mean everyone else does.
Also, complaining about SL not having crit immune toons while you have palemasters in MA which are without any doubt the epitome of crit. immunity is ridiculous. This thread is about solar/balor imbalance and you managed to make it a raving madness of incoherent complaints about everything you could think of.

[Rufio]

For reference, that's with a druid and a cleric buffing his Solar (61 was with flanking +2 for sure because they cap at 59 )

well alka said it was his balor that had 61 ab. The solar was reading at 59 ab. The solar must have had had 57 ab with +2 for flanking because they hit the +20 cap at 58 ab. An equivalently buffed Balor would have 65 ab with 67 ab when flanking.

Just note that you can't reference your summon's character sheet for ab. The character sheet won't show bonuses from buffs like ava, bard song, and haste if they are also receiving any bonuses from feats or caster race. Always go by the battle log.

There is really no wizardry to summon ab calculations though. A balor will always have 8 more ab than a solar and a slaad will have 1 more ab than the solar if all buffs and summon focuses are equal. Balor caps at 66, slaad caps at 59, and solar caps at 58, though getting ab on a summon to cap is difficult without max summon focuses and two of either greater magic fang, ava, or bard song.

[Snookz Eaglin]

Well, two bladed sword. Blocks enemies but also blocks itself.

In pvp they get blocked a lot more than they block others, players can force themselves through with wasd keys, no such luck for balors. Not really a big deal though.

I guess it wouldn't be unreasonable to give solars a little more ab, but from a MASL perspective it will make us sligthly weaker. It would also make a lot of cleric builds sligthly stronger, and I don't feel cleric is the class that needs buffing atm.

[Bargeld]

Well, two bladed sword. Blocks enemies but also blocks itself.

Pretty sure it's a greatsword.

One toon wont be both cot/pally, have stunning fist, great disc, great saves, crit immunity, high AC, divine might damage, have PDK present and so on.

Yeah a pally/cot wouldn't have all that. But a dex bard clc CoT would, except stun fist. Instead they would have haste, umd for mords, crit immunity (per the scrolling of shapechange as claimed), and c/c, NC tokens for additional divine damage and full spot. And $10 says it would be drow. PDK presence can't be guaranteed by anyone, so adding it to this list means nothing.

[Rufio]

Making drow non-good and CoT good only isn't a bad idea, but I don't see how it could be done without a wipe. Perrsonally I'd just scale back divine wrath a bit so CoT's aren't capping their own ab with a single buff. Also the divine damage and damage reduction could be scaled back (I still think being able to get /+9 dr with 30 CoT is cool, just maybe not 25 points worth)

And give solars a two-bladed sword, that would be cool

[Daltian]

By making cot good only and drow non good you would basically force cots to have no keen senses except for the stunner variants which are best made with svirf anyway.
Also, non-pala cots have high saves indeed but not outrageously high as some might think. And Sacred defense goes towards +20 magical cap too so you wouldn't get bonuses from PDK and bard if you have it.
Also, we have no mages/sorcs and have great melee prc. Ithink it balances out quite nice. And remember that even with CoT being as IMBA as you say it is, it still cant kill PM/cleric 1 on 1. With cot defending good PM/cleric will walk out of the cradle every single way.
You can lower wrath ab, but then give us sorcs, wizards and rogues.

[Bargeld]

By making cot good only and drow non good you would basically force cots to have no keen senses except for the stunner variants which are best made with svirf anyway.

Yeah, that's the point.

And remember that even with CoT being as IMBA as you say it is, it still cant kill PM/cleric 1 on 1. With cot defending good PM/cleric will walk out of the cradle every single way.

The fact that you fail fighting those toons doesn't mean everyone else does.

And who is making claims they can't back up now? Your enemy just gave you a build that did all the things you said you COULDN'T do. And hond gets bashed for the same things you all are saying? C'mon now!

[Nocturne]

Wow, this thread passed up ridiculousness WAY the hell back.

[Lokey]

You cant throw all NC/TC strengths in one barrel and make one super toon with all pros and no cons. One toon wont be both cot/pally, have stunning fist, great disc, great saves, crit immunity, high AC, divine might damage, have PDK present and so on.

7 out of 8 isn't bad Probably good enough ac to have functional crit immunity if you try, or get most of that on a PDK. That's not to say every faction doesn't have some pretty damn awesome things to make, just that SL has fewer exclusive top tier for current flavors of month. Also it's not like SL can't field functionally that same build either.

[Korr]

Paly/cot toons are immune to stun (not a real immunity but saves way over the top DC)...and in same time prolly immune to evil turn if a pdk is around...the minus/bonus make -7 ab/ac/save to prolly nothing...and 60+ saves -7/-8 and you will still immune to all the death instants spells...
Polymorph self and shapechange...wow, you just found a reason to not nerf stun as ALL the factions can use scroll of that powerfull spell (so all can be immune to stun)...Well done...now i have to work on a polymorpher toon who will resist, to your CoT stunners 65 AB 60 DC 25 divines damages toons...pretty easy task...thanks so much man...you found a very good solution...my undead vs your divine damagers, i'm sure i will rock...Or my golem 45 AC, against your 7 attacks/rounds + divines damages...I suggest you to go farm some ely heavyflail, to be sure to wipe me faster....If solution was so simple, why people are just complaining about stun again and again...Here come Daral and found the solution to your problems.

WAH I R CANT BUILD BETTER. COT IS R TOO AMAZOR FOR ANYONE TO BEAT. YOU IS MUST COMBINE 2 CLASS FOR SUPER SAVE WHICH MEAN IS TOO STRONGER THAN CAN BE.

Because Ive never seen a mage drop a CoT like it was second nature. (Though I have seen it go the other way too).


http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/583/turnundeadv2.png

Theres the turn undead. 16 Cha mod to get -10 from evil turner. Thats 30 base charisma. 20 start with 10 on top would do it (wis is a different matter, still need 25). It takes some great charisma and great wisdom feats, but its definently doable to get 26 wisdom and 30 charisma. Both starting @ 17 and one gets a +2. Save a few feats if your aasimar and get +2 wis & cha.

[Bargeld]

Save a few feats if your aasimar and get +2 wis & cha.

Are you suggesting this for MASL turner? I don't understand why this is being said in relation to the rest of your paragraph.