Bigsy spells

[silontprotecter]

Bigby's are waaaaaaaay imba. Not only will they have already damages on the extreme level, the damages are doubled in chance with the lowest noobs doing insane pushing. Since you are make the bigby so OP, at least buff counter to RDD. The slowing is added with any movement so what do you expect fighters do. Learn 2 balance, they spells are only counterable by other wizzes because anyone else is just gone.

[Delisha Zrazorian]

yea... It isn't very fun if you are stuck building in that 10% of builds just because you are afraid of getting Bigbys before you can even make a fight of things.

[Daltian]

I seriously doubt 10% of builds can win 1 on 1 vs. bigs wizard.

[Alkapwn]

RDD already gets a +4 vs bigby slow and to be RDD you need to sorc or bard so you have plenty of access to Freedom of Movement.
Forceful Hand is pretty awesome but takes a dedicated caster to use it effectivly making them extremly prone to Knockdown which means death to a mage that gets melee'd. Also DR/immunity makes a huge difference Makes you think twice about running headlong into a mage while wearing your pj's.
Does roughtly the same amount of damage as a IGM anyway at least you have a chance to resist

As far as mobs casting it i've never really had too much of a problem anywhere as per proper level

[Daltian]

From TC/NC perspective bigsby is way to OP right now. Almost every build gets trashed around. Giving one build ability to pull and push people on a whim together with very high damage those same spells do, having powerful damage shield from same focuses and still retain all the perks of being a wizard including best damage spell in game(IGMS).

Those few that can resist bigsbys STR check (shifter strength builds) are free kill for wizards anyway if wizard has any idea how to fight one.

I am not saying last bigsby changes were bad, they are improved over what bigs used to be but before changes one at least had chance to use dismissal and have a fighting chance. Right now there is no use of dismissal since all effects are instantly applied.

If I was to change bigs I would substantially lower the damage since spell that has such a great utility shouldn't do damage at same time. Also if effect and checks were to stay the same at least give a us 1 round before its applied so one could be able to dismiss it as we did before.

I hate raiding with my SD when going 1 on 1, feels so cheesy. But that's the only build I have that can win vs wizard defender. Just make it balanced enough for me to have a fighting chance please.

[Snookz Eaglin]

I play bigby mages quite often and I find that most players are choosing very bad tactics against them.

[Daltian]

Ok, in your opinion what tactic would work? Saying it's a bad tactic doesn't say much.

[Snookz Eaglin]

Saying it's a bad tactic doesn't say much.

And that was completely intentional
Nothing huge though, just a lot of small things that I find many players neglect, no idea if you're one of them.

[Daltian]

Problem isn't that people are using bad tactic, problem is that there isn't a good tactic versus competent bigs mage.

Yes, I can hide to most of mages with my SD, but that is just lame way of playing. I don't want to play my SD all the time.

For example, the fact that SR monk, character that hugely invested in resisting spells gets trashed by the mage is hilarious. That should not happen. If a build is supposed to be hard counter to something it should at least have a fighting chance.

[Rufio]

The problem as I see it is the huge amount of damage bigby 6 does, and that very few builds have any chance at resisting both bigby 6 and bigby 7. There are a few builds that do stand a chance, but this isn't about giving examples of some specific RDD builds.

bigby 6 damage is on par with igms like alkapwn said, and it can be resisted, which would be fine if the only thing it did was damage, but the fact that it is a mage's best way of keeping an enemy at range, can be used in crowds, AND is one of a mage's best damage spells makes it overpowered. The spell would be quite useful even if it did no damage at all.

[Mixtli]

Lets put it this way - we had options to counter old Bigsby - it wasn't such a problem.
Dismissal + FoM and repeat again. Now, it is a lot, lot harder.

Changes to bigsby nerfed a lot of existing toons. Both on the caster side and on the opposition side. Few of my most used toons are unusable. All fair, no hard feelings.
Now that the dust is settled, and some new mages are in the game, I think all sides realize the true potential to new bigsby. Lets just say mages shouldn't complain.

[Nyeleni]

Mages are almost unbeatable in mano a mano. They control the battlefield now. Well, they always had a lot of control even if they are sometimes fast dead. But now you have to reach them first. And that is obviously a lot worse now.

I can only agree with Rufio, Daltian and others if they say bigby pushing and pulling and doing even some substantial damage is a bit too much.




PS: The mage's name was Bigby. Not Bigsby (although I like the version with s better heh). The same goes with "smited", if I read that again somewhere, Im going to smite that person. It is "smitten". And it doesn't matter if it is used now more with "smitten with love" than anything else.

[mining]

The same goes with "smited", if I read that again somewhere, Im going to smite that person. It is "smitten". And it doesn't matter if it is used now more with "smitten with love" than anything else.

smote?

[Korr]

20 x d6+1 = average 4 x 20 = 80 damage average (not resistable (well it is but not typically used))

40d8 = average 4 x 40 = 160 damage average (average 25% 20/- resistance = 100 damage)

[[9th level bigby = 20d10 damage = average 5 x 20 = 100 damage 55 after resistance]]

So while its "close" on the average damage (80 igms vs 100 bigby(after typical resistance)) bigby also doesnt get split, gets a knockback... though it does require focuses (unlike IGMS) those focuses arent JUST for bigby they work for other spells.

The problem I dont see as being JUST the damage though, its the AB (which typically for spells uses wizard actual AB) which gets easily buffed up.

38 for pure caster (more than fighters get for 40 levels!)
6 for focus (more than a fighter can get with feats (2 of which require epic feats unlike wizard where only 1 is epic))
X for int/cha (just like a fighter with str/dex)
1d20 (just like a fighter)

So maxing stats but NO epic int/cha means :
38 + 6 + 16 + d20 = 61-80 total attack


Average AC : (lots of rough speculation in this one... plz dont chastise me for this part. Correct any mistakes tho!)
10 (Base)
15 (full plate + 6) [[we can add 7 to this for dexers]]
09 (tower shield + 6)
05 (Dodge)
05 (Deflection)
05 (Natural)
04 (Tumble) [[we can add 4 to this for max tumblers]]
02 (Armor Skin)
01 (Haste) [[we can add 1 more for blinding speed]]

Thats 56 -> 68 AC (60-72 with a bard around). For the same stat spread as a wizard. So they hit 50% of the time when you have a bard around... or almost every time without. Now there are some classes that get bonus AC like RDD(mage faction) and PM(mage faction). Shifters got their AC dropped a while back, though some can still rock some nice AC. So the balance of 6th level spell (attainable at level 11) just doesnt seem to hold up.

Also dont forget bigby has no respect to concealment (ie : improved invis does no provide 50% miss) and therefor I am guessing also does not respect epic dodge either, meaning that rogues (even if they went all out for self-concealment) would be crippled.

[Nyeleni]

The same goes with "smited", if I read that again somewhere, Im going to smite that person. It is "smitten". And it doesn't matter if it is used now more with "smitten with love" than anything else.

smote?

Yes, smite smote or smit (but obsolete now) smitten or smit (actually there is an alternative, heh); smiting. And not smite smote smited, smiting ...

Meaning:
1. to strike or hit hard, with or as with the hand, a stick, or other weapon: She smote him on the back with her umbrella.
2. to deliver or deal (a blow, hit, etc.) by striking hard.
3. to strike down, injure, or slay: His sword had smitten thousands.
4. to afflict or attack with deadly or disastrous effect: smitten by polio.
5. to affect mentally or morally with a sudden pang: His conscience smote him.