Take wizard back

[mining]

I'm unsure - this is something I would like feedback on. There's a complex dynamic between hiders, spotters and non-spotters.


In general, it should be spotters beat hiders beat non-spotters beat spotters - this is for where its comparable, not for the general case of any builds.

[VagaStorm]

lokey has abused HIPS feat on a hogre with 50 hide/ms to make himself disappear. nerf the hides when the spot is already higher skill

The main problem with hips is that you have to be an elf for spot to be useful. If you don't have keenses, he will have hipsed and attacked you flatfooted b4 you have the chance hit search mode since it's imposible to be looking for him and fight him at the same time, and that's on a laggfree day. Even if you can spot him, hipsing will break you combat cue, so your totally depending on hitting the hipser constantly to not loose focus. Oh, did I mention that you can often hips while being disabled by kd or fighter token?

I don't object to the current amount of spot vs hide boots, I just think hips is the most utterly broken thing in all of NWN.

Edit: Rant End

[Amoenotep]

which is what i was getting at. hide/spot isn't so much broken as hips is retardedly implemented/broken

[Rufio]

Spot numbers should be able to get higher than hide numbers. Hipsers invest heavily in a skill that works against all builds, but spotters invest heavily in a skill that only works against one type of build. In every battle there is a use for hide, but in every battle you have to bring in a spotter just in case a hipser shows up, which might not even happen. Yet spotters have to invest more into their build than ghostwise or trickery domain clerics in order to have a chance at spotting them.

I agree that hips can be very powerful even without absurd hide numbers, and this is why I am suggesting we lower hide numbers some. The high hide numbers that spotters struggle with only amplifies the problem (as evidenced by the trickery domain cleric walking out with a relic on report's 127 spot elf)

[Amoenotep]

good to know there's atleast 1 hider that can hide from something instead of all the spotters that see everything

[Rufio]

nerfing ghostwise and trickery domain wouldn't make uber-hide builds impossible, it just wouldn't be laughably easy.

[Ajantis.]

Could bring those +6 spot rings back. At the very least as a DM award item.

[Bargeld]

I feel i should say this now, to put it all into perspective... I'm pretty sure that 'report's claims about the clc domain sd was about my Amaranth ::DD::. If you know my builds and you know my play ability, then it should help explain a little why the '127 spot elf' was beat.

First off, it was an AA. It had no div focused buffs (it was scroll buffing TS & CC) so I doubt that it hit 127 with just scrolls (my AA spotter self buffs up to around 119-121 max).

I was dispelling it with clc GDispel 2x per rest.

Being a ~30 clc, I have about 4 grestores and 4 mass heals per rest, and roughly 600 hp. Only the crits hurt, and I was healing when warranted.

I would chalk up the experience as a bit of a tall tale, honestly. He wasn't at 127 spot for most of the battle (if at all). And he WAS able to spot me and hit me, but when you have that much healing available and only 1 toon standing there shooting at you doing 5-10 per hit, and maybe 70-80 per crit, it's easily explainable how I didn't get killed. I think he is rolling 'spotted' and 'defeated' into the same bundle here. I was spotted, for sure (sometimes)... but I was never defeated.

Also keep in mind that we had a raiding team of like 4 vs 2 AO defenders, so that didn't help his efforts of trying to get me.

[Ajantis.]

This sounds to be more about not having enough spellcraft (for counterspelling) rather than spot.

[Rufio]

I should know better than to think there is any sort of truth in AO whines by now...

I still think ghostwise and trickery domain could use a nerf though.

[Ajantis.]

Ghostwise and trickery bonus doesn't last very long though.

[Amoenotep]

trickery is like 1/2 round/lvl or something....mine is pretty short

[Ajantis.]

Trickery:

Bonus to hide, persuade, search, disable trap, move silently, open lock, and pick pocket checks equal to 1 per 2 cleric levels. This effect lasts for 5 turns + the cleric's charisma modifier.

The bonus is actually 1 higher than indicated by the description. (That is 1 + 1 per 2 levels.)?

[VagaStorm]

Lol, they should remove the +50 buff limit on skills. As it stands, if you can get max buff, you need to hit 77 unbuffed in the skill to hit the limit. thats maxed skill epic and regular skill focus: 43 + 10 +3 = 56. In adition you can take alertness, bloodred and get +2 from elf, which puts you at 62. The remaining 15 points will have to come from high wisdom, thats 40 buffed wisdom. And hers the problem. Only a wery few builds need 40 wisdom, mainly a caster cleric(which dont realy whant to cross class for spot), shifters which cant cross class for spot or zen archers. The hider ofcourse needs about the same amount of dex, but dex can be used by any build, so it gives a lot more freedom.

[Rufio]

I don't have a trickery domain cleric, so maybe I am misinformed, but the description of 5 turns + 1 per cleric level indicates that it lasts a really long time. Like at 30 cleric it would be 35 minutes. Even 5 turns is 5 minutes, which is ages in pvp.

Also, part of the reason I'm saying to nerf it is that clerics are already the most influential defensive class in pvp and pvm, they don't need more perks.

And isn't the ghostwise token permanent?