Defending relics with non-allied toons

[Ryddwillow]

Don't forget gnomes. Tinker gnomes actually have some good stats to build a dexer bard with, and it would get small size bonuses, giving it 1 more ab and ac than a drow bard. It could be built statistically superior to a drow bard if you are ok with parting with keen senses.

Ya big whoop, every other faction can use him so no big secret.

Don't forget gnomes. Tinker gnomes actually have some good stats to build a dexer bard with, and it would get small size bonuses, giving it 1 more ab and ac than a drow bard. It could be built statistically superior to a drow bard if you are ok with parting with keen senses.

Ya, but you were dodging the question. Name the last good bard from RK? I mean i am trying to be nice on my answers here, so plz (in a mono tone voice) state your answer? The LAST DAMN good bard from RK?

[Elagneros]

Sorcerers i can see but RK can make plenty of excellent DC based wizards though which are more versatile anyhow. But really bards? 16 charisma is not to hard to get.

so RK can make sorcs with 1 less cha mod . Why does that make a RK Sorcerer useless? Pally/sorc's just must suck eh? lol

The biggest hit is cross divine builds. i.e. Str or Dex/Cha pallys,BGs and there is a couple of those in RK that i absolutely hate given my affinity for evil toons. But honestly no matter where you build them they're only effective vs a couple of builds

That's what I was saying. Sorc isn't optimal for RK, but there are good wizards, and IMO wizards are better than sorcs in the long run. Bards do get hit from it too, since their abilities are dependant on a Cha based skill, Perform. It's not a big hit over 40 levels but it's still a little lower than other option from outside the faction. Though I admit I have no experience with bard builds.

I don't know why paladins would be considered cripplingly suboptimal. A good RK paladin should focus on the combat abilities anyway, that plays to the faction's strengths.

The Cha penalties aren't that great, but even picking a subrace without a penalty only means you're not getting a +2 someone else might have. Realistically, that's only a Cha modifier of 1 less. But for some people, min maxing is everything and that -1 is seen as crippling. Go figure. Still, despite Willow's rants on this matter, I don't think RK's weakness in Cha is its biggest detriment, rather I think's it a relatively minor factor in why people don't pick RK.

If RK are limited to dorfs I dont see a reason why they should be allowed in any other faction.

Because people love when nerfs take away options.

Besides, it forces anyone who makes a dwarf to play RK, which is at best a bad solution to the problem.

[mining]

Don't forget gnomes. Tinker gnomes actually have some good stats to build a dexer bard with, and it would get small size bonuses, giving it 1 more ab and ac than a drow bard. It could be built statistically superior to a drow bard if you are ok with parting with keen senses.

Ya big whoop, every other faction can use him so no big secret.

Don't forget gnomes. Tinker gnomes actually have some good stats to build a dexer bard with, and it would get small size bonuses, giving it 1 more ab and ac than a drow bard. It could be built statistically superior to a drow bard if you are ok with parting with keen senses.

Ya, but you were dodging the question. Name the last good bard from RK? I mean i am trying to be nice on my answers here, so plz (in a mono tone voice) state your answer? The LAST DAMN good bard from RK?

I'm honestly not sure if I've ever seen a (non-dip) bard from RK. Doesn't mean you can't do 'em, just means people prefer to make them out of AO, lol.

Now, if you'll tell me the last time you saw a SD out of MA, given SL's better job bonuses, or a Cleric out of TC given NC's better domains... Oh wait.

Also, Elagneros has the right idea: x, y and z may not be the best out of RK, but you can't make all of x, y and z in any other factional pair/single faction.

[Ryddwillow]

Ryddwillow wrote:
Quote:
Don't forget gnomes. Tinker gnomes actually have some good stats to build a dexer bard with, and it would get small size bonuses, giving it 1 more ab and ac than a drow bard. It could be built statistically superior to a drow bard if you are ok with parting with keen senses.



Ya big whoop, every other faction can use him so no big secret.


Quote:
Don't forget gnomes. Tinker gnomes actually have some good stats to build a dexer bard with, and it would get small size bonuses, giving it 1 more ab and ac than a drow bard. It could be built statistically superior to a drow bard if you are ok with parting with keen senses.


Ya, but you were dodging the question. Name the last good bard from RK? I mean i am trying to be nice on my answers here, so plz (in a mono tone voice) state your answer? The LAST DAMN good bard from RK?

I'm honestly not sure if I've ever seen a (non-dip) bard from RK. Doesn't mean you can't do 'em, just means people prefer to make them out of AO, lol.

Now, if you'll tell me the last time you saw a SD out of MA, given SL's better job bonuses, or a Cleric out of TC given NC's better domains... Oh wait.

Also, Elagneros has the right idea: x, y and z may not be the best out of RK, but you can't make all of x, y and z in any other factional pair/single faction.

So the answer from a NC guy was no answer? you talk in circles and yes you are bias for nc and tc, we the rest can see this. (I hate to be a jerk) you need to focus on the greater good for the ppl that play here that spend thier free time here when they make it. You are thanked in soo many ways in hopes we can get something fixed after all these yrs, we need you, but never call me a nazi, plz

I might

[Eldaquen]

Willow, Minning's post was an answer. Might not have been the answer you wanted but it was an answer.

Forum ettiqoute was brought up in this thread, and I believe you asked for respectful posts to further the discussion in a constructive direction. Respectful posts should result in respectful posts. Disrespectful ones will illict a similar response.

This thread's topic is about using non-allied toons to defend rival factions. Thread seems to be off track about build options in RK. If RK options is a justification for using non-allied toons to defend RK, then not having access wizards and sorc options in TC would be justification for a TC player to build MA builds to defend TC with. I remember reading shouts from past players who played in AO/RK whom were upset when Non-TC players would show up in TC to defend TC just to participate in PvP. The complaint was that coalition of forces (joining up) was unfair. Why was it NOT ok for Non-TC players who were bored and wanted to participate in PvP to go where the PvP action was occuring, but ok for a faction player to build a rival faction toons to defend their home faction.

Just an observation.

A claim was made that the main reason AO/RK's population decreased was the joining of rival forces against AO/RK. Seems to be a double standard, ok for faction players to build rival factions builds to defend home faction, but not ok for a player of a rival faction to join PvP action on the side of a rival against a rival.

Yes, I am aware that in this thread a new claim surfaced claiming it was the lack of options in RK as the reason people left. Maybe it is both, or one, or neither.

[DM_Sultan]

AND, the claim that Mining is somehow showing favoritism to NC is absurd. As the NC diety at large for the moment, I'm constantantly having to debate to have NC NOT be nerfed. There is no way Mining could be accussed of being bias towards NC or anyone else for that matter. He just knows NC better than you, Ryddwillow, but he is not biased towards anyone. Elda's explaination of why factions joined forces against AO/RK is very accurate and was sited to answer others' complaints.

To bring this discussion back on track, however, if you build a toon in one faction with the intent of using that toon to raid that faction, you will then be stuck using that toon for the entire duration of all relic fighting and cannot change to another toon/faction until the raiding is completely over. I will take it a step further and extend that ban across server resets - for as long as relics are being battled over - until everyone has quit raiding. Also, dieties will take a dim view for the sake of role play towards a factioned toon who purposely raids their own faction. You could just be stuck with a toon that is totally cursed out for the duration of the raiding. Switching toons after you have been warned and this has been discussed to death at this juncture, can result in getting you banned and booted for venge logging.

Bring on the rules lawyers.

Sultan

[Ogami]

And now I guess we need to look at how this thread started: the usual guy crying after a pk. 6 pages for it.

[Blystos Re]

...and I read them all. Even Willow's posts.

This Kos-Mos character will meet theirs in the end. Torm will catch him, or NC will form a lynch mob. We each get three PKs, right?

As to the one stating that the world should "get used to" CoTs defending RK... *chucle* We'll see how long that lasts. Defying your deity is a great way to have your inventory filled to maximum with un-droppable lead bars. (Just a suggestion, Sultan...) I'm sorry that you feel like, with your access to all the arcane casting you could ever need, you can't stop a Pale Master. I'd take Mining's advice and learn to build to your strengths.

That, or just come to terms with the fact that you want to be part of NC. We might approve your membership to CLAD after you delete all your RK toons, but don't count on FoN being so forgiving.


And in closing, this whole thing could have been avoided if we had rogues in NC. Just sayin'....

[Shadowalker]

This Kos-Mos character will meet theirs in the end. Torm will catch him, or NC will form a lynch mob. We each get three PKs, right?

A grand idea but a mob is a group and thus counts as one entity in reguards to the 3 pk limit. Which ofcourse doesnt apply if the pk'd toon continutes to return to the lynch mobs controlled zones.

[Amoenotep]

i think we stopped getting any real info about 4 pages back.