ECL 3 races

[TheEdge]

o.O!!!!! *marks calender...... Someone just agreed with Willow!!!!

[frogofpeace]

But it was about dorfs, so no one cares

[Ryddwillow]

I want what is fair to all factions is all. Open your eyes and see for a change. everyone on this server in every faction can make a dwarf, but RK can not use every race out there except dwarf and gnome so no biggie there. RK can not use a gith, drow or any other ecl 3 race that has a good chance as the rest of the factions but, everyone can use RK races. RK can use alot more classes but if you do not have the right mix of races the classes are worthless.

AO has no jobs so anyone NEW to this server skips that faction and builds somewhere else (experience here). I have seen it many a times.

I still think only good alignment wizards should be in NC (but I do not know the ramifications of mixed builds with the wizard in NC is all, I can try to figure it out but.)

I still think neutral aligned sorc should be in TC.

Just a few thoughts again, This game is not getting any newer and to entice new ppl here is something to build on.

[VagaStorm]

I want Miniatuar, Irda, Avariel and Silvanesti(those aint that good, but it's one of my favorite pnp races).

[MtainEer]

I want what is fair to all factions is all. Open your eyes and see for a change. everyone on this server in every faction can make a dwarf, but RK can not use every race out there except dwarf and gnome so no biggie there. RK can not use a gith, drow or any other ecl 3 race that has a good chance as the rest of the factions but, everyone can use RK races. RK can use alot more classes but if you do not have the right mix of races the classes are worthless.

AO has no jobs so anyone NEW to this server skips that faction and builds somewhere else (experience here). I have seen it many a times.

I still think only good alignment wizards should be in NC (but I do not know the ramifications of mixed builds with the wizard in NC is all, I can try to figure it out but.)

I still think neutral aligned sorc should be in TC.

Just a few thoughts again, This game is not getting any newer and to entice new ppl here is something to build on.

Again, I agree with Willow on all of this.

If the server is to remain as is, to encourage being loyal to a faction and its alliance, NC/TC would need a wiz somewhere for crafters, NC has an arcane place so...it seems logical that NC would get the wizard.

But, I doubt that anything here that I say matters...so, it is what it is.

MtainEer

[::MADD::Arch]

Willow said:

RK can not use a gith, drow or any other ecl 3 race that has a good chance as the rest of the factions but, everyone can use RK races. RK can use alot more classes but if you do not have the right mix of races the classes are worthless.

Just out of curiosity Willow, what would you build first if you had access to say Gith in RK?

This isn't a rhetorical question, but I am wondering.....

[Ryddwillow]

Just out of curiosity Willow, what would you build first if you had access to say Gith in RK?

This isn't a rhetorical question, but I am wondering.....

If I was to build out of RK there would be no Githerzia. I am confused by the statement because I can answer it many ways.

Since RK has soo many a options in classes and no really good races beside the one gnome ecl 3 and blur becomes obsolete, I guess you can tell me?


If I was to make a bard I would be really stuck with 1 dwarf without chr decrease.

If I was to make a sorc I would be really stuck with 1 dwarf without chr decrease.

If I was to make a Blackguard I would be really stuck with 1 dwarf without chr decrease.

I mean it is not hard to understand the pattern. Yes RK has the most builds like LA but without the race classes.

It is really not hard to see through the tree's, you just have to look once in awhile.


Understanding that Dwarfs have low charisma, I understand but ppl on forums here say they have a Drow paladin, why? because of the bonuses the class gives. Now we have a dwarf paladin he is already under stat due to you can chose 1 race of the dwarfs without a penalty on chr and the drow gets a plus in many a abilities and SR which is huge.

I mean is it really that hard to see?

You can spout RK has many a class diversions but no races that are grand like LA was and what happened to LA.

Big picture take some classes away from RK and give only RK, RK races only period if it is going to be a dwarf and gnome race only. Otherwise incorporate other races in to bring the balance.

[Alkapwn]

If I was to build out of RK there would be no Githerzia. I am confused by the statement because I can answer it many ways.
:

Surprise, surprise.

So you can't Min/Max a charisma based rk Toon so apparantly they're worthless!
You hear that RK. Don't build charisma based toons!!!
Now that we have that out of the way I can start the ignition on my Roflcoptor

[Ryddwillow]

Surprise, surprise.

So you can't Min/Max a charisma based rk Toon so apparantly they're worthless!
You hear that RK. Don't build charisma based toons!!!
Now that we have that out of the way I can start the ignition on my Roflcoptor

I did believe Madd asked my opinion.

So you can't Min/Max a charisma based rk Toon so apparantly they're worthless!

Compared to MA, SL, NC, TC, AO races available why would you make a dwarf bard in those factions due to a hinder in chr? or a sorc? I wouldn't.

Wow,


Making a drow in all factions besides RK you get a HUGE bonus to making a bard, use darkness to lvl quicker. Make a gith in all factions besides RK to gain plus 4 ac. I mean the facts are on NS4wiki look them up instead of trying to spread your filth. Just read and heed and learn.

[mining]

Meh. 50% undispellable conceal is nice, it compares to gith AC.

You also have Tinker Gnome for bards, paladins etc. Maybe not pure paladin, but should be able to pull a tinker gnome paladin / bg build without wis.

[Alkapwn]

Your rk bard fails cause it doesnt get a drow +2charisma and darkness

I have a couple rk 40's and they do extraordinarily well without drow darkness and +4 dodge.
All dwarves get +2 vs poison,spells to begin with which is pretty huge for pvp
the dwarven subraces are all awesome with extra immuniies
+ all the gnome races
RR/Tlb doesnt seem to have any problems building viable pvp/pvm build.

I can think of just off the top of my head 3 builds that only RK can build that are devastating

Perhaps if Willow spent more time actually building toons and less time running around with a lvl 40 donation bought monk getting pwnd and whining about it, he may see the truth of the matter.

[Elagneros]

Well, it's been a while since I've played and there are probably a lot of subtle changes I'm unaware of, but this is kind of how I see it right now:

RK isn't the Cha faction anyway, you want some good Cha toons, you go to NC, they're the home of paladins and bards. For sorcs, you go AO for the RDD, and that prestige class is one of the only reasons to choose a sorc over a wizard anyway. Those are the only three base classes that really rely on Cha to any degree. Wizards are usually better for arcane casting than sorcerers unless you're going for a multi-class combination, and most of the time you want a sorc for self-buffing, because you want to keep casters more pure. Multiclassing a caster just hurts your caster level. Paladins aren't going to take a really serious hit, the smiting, lay on hands, turn undead and saves will be a little weaker in RK than say NC, but a typical dwarf paladin will have a Con bonus which means more hp. And I'm sure there's at least one good paladin/Dwarven Defender out there. That just leaves bards, which requires some creativity in RK, but not impossible. The character's probably going to be better at party support than as an attacker.

That doesn't make RK useless. Their strengths tend towards tank builds, especially with the Dwarven Defender PrC.

[Ogami]

Here is an update with the subtle changes :
This is only a small portion:
AO has lost : 1)dwarves 2)gnomes 3)wizards 4) SD !!! 5) earth genasi clerics (now explain this).
In other words AO lost all the typical builds LA guilds (tlb and hns) had…
Now get suspicious.
To populate the faction, they introduced a powerful red wyrm shape with 30 rdd levels…
To nerf it a little after it got populated. Nerfed to stoneage, it's worse than any druid dragon shape (druids get it sooner too)

[mining]

Here is an update with the subtle changes :
This is only a small portion:
AO has lost : 1)dwarves 2)gnomes 3)wizards 4) SD !!! 5) earth genasi clerics (now explain this).
In other words AO lost all the typical builds LA guilds (tlb and hns) had…
Now get suspicious.
To populate the faction, they introduced a powerful red wyrm shape with 30 rdd levels…
To nerf it a little after it got populated. Nerfed to stoneage, it's worse than any druid dragon shape (druids get it sooner too)

I'm sorry, what? Ignoring the first few, the RDD shape is fine. Its better than druid shape, as a melee build. If you want to consider self buffed, stop comparing WMs to battleclerics.

[Rufio]

AO is one of the best factions there is for building. You get the best races and nearly every class. No wizards isn't a huge loss when you still have sorcs. No paladins isn't all that bad either when you have blackguards, which may not be as good pure, but are just as good as a dip class.

Almost every build I have designed without a faction-specific prc can be done in AO.

Then there are RDDs. 30 rdd is a novelty, forget out that. 10 rdd is an instant boost to any melee build. +4 ab, +4 ac, +40 hp, +1 fort, more skill points, and then cha, which can boost a few differnet things. We've toyed around with quite a few different 10 rdd builds in TC and NC, and we have turned out some pretty solid meleers. Mining was killing our CoTs with his RDD ranger in daeron a few weeks ago without too much trouble at all. It is one of the most fun classes to toss around ideas with when it comes to multiclassed melee builds, and the only class that can do a truly effective str/dex hybrid builds.