Bigby Nerfs

[BlkMamba]

lvl 8 could use alittle help as well
scrolls seem to work fine, could those be added?
spell failure could use a slight increase, possible to extend?

[Eldaquen]

The main complaint about the new bigbies seems to be focused around the change to level 9 bigbies.

Just a thought, but what if instead of lowering AC the level 9 was still a stun based affect but implemented in another way.

For example: spell DC vs target's will save (total score)

Spell DC = 10 + spell level + Spell focus: evo (2) + greater spell focus: evo (2) + epic spell focus: evo (2) + int/cha modifier + D20

Save DC = cumulative will score (modifier and items included) + arcane spell defense: evo + spell craft save adjustment + spell buff (forget spell name) + D20

Function as an instant effect...if fails to best target's will save then no stun, maybe some damage (bldg: 1d6 per caster level/2). If spell DC bests will save then target held for 1 rounds if no focus, 2 rounds if spell focused: evo, 3 rounds if greater focused: evo, and 4 rounds if epic focused: evo. Every round targeted foe makes another will save vs spell DC to see if they are able to break away from the stun.

In this way the spell will do well against low will save builds mainly melee types that are most likely to chain KD a low disc wizard...and less affective against other spell casters (wizards, and druids). Yes druid dragons and shifter dragons under the above proposal would not be stunned, but you are getting damage with max possible of 120 bldg. Please remember dragons are large creatures and usually without haste, and even when hasted there are so many obstucles in the way that a hasted mage/sorc should have little difficulty of running out of a dragons range.

[BlkMamba]

The main complaint about the new bigbies seems to be focused around the change to level 9 bigbies.

Just a thought, but what if instead of lowering AC the level 9 was still a stun based affect but implemented in another way.

For example: spell DC vs target's will save (total score)

Spell DC = 10 + spell level + Spell focus: evo (2) + greater spell focus: evo (2) + epic spell focus: evo (2) + int/cha modifier + D20

Save DC = cumulative will score (modifier and items included) + arcane spell defense: evo + spell craft save adjustment + spell buff (forget spell name) + D20

Function as an instant effect...if fails to best target's will save then no stun, maybe some damage (bldg: 1d6 per caster level/2). If spell DC bests will save then target held for 1 rounds if no focus, 2 rounds if spell focused: evo, 3 rounds if greater focused: evo, and 4 rounds if epic focused: evo. Every round targeted foe makes another will save vs spell DC to see if they are able to break away from the stun.

In this way the spell will do well against low will save builds mainly melee types that are most likely to chain KD a low disc wizard...and less affective against other spell casters (wizards, and druids). Yes druid dragons and shifter dragons under the above proposal would not be stunned, but you are getting damage with max possible of 120 bldg. Please remember dragons are large creatures and usually without haste, and even when hasted there are so many obstucles in the way that a hasted mage/sorc should have little difficulty of running out of a dragons range.

Better off the way it is Elda, saves are to easy to get up
my PF could make that will save just about everytime if i'd keep him off the ale
But i good thought thou

[Eldaquen]

What if add caster level/8 to the spells DC?

so, 10 + spell level (9) + focuses (6) + Int/cha (assuming 46 int so 18 mod) + caster level/8 (pure 40/8 so 5) + d20 = Spell DC range of 49 to 68

or caster level/5

so, 10 + spell level (9) + focuses (6) + Int/cha (assuming 46 int so 18 mod) + caster level/5 (pure 40/5 so 8 ) + d20 = Spell DC range of 52 to 71

Actually most spells could use a DC boast due to save enhancing items in game, so adding caster level/x to most spells might be decent boast for all casters.

[weasel423]

What if add caster level/8 to the spells DC?

so, 10 + spell level (9) + focuses (6) + Int/cha (assuming 46 int so 18 mod) + caster level/8 (pure 40/8 so 5) + d20 = Spell DC range of 49 to 68

or caster level/5

so, 10 + spell level (9) + focuses (6) + Int/cha (assuming 46 int so 18 mod) + caster level/5 (pure 40/5 so 8 ) + d20 = Spell DC range of 52 to 71

Actually most spells could use a DC boast due to save enhancing items in game, so adding caster level/x to most spells might be decent boast for all casters.

[Rufio]

oh, DC 55 +1d20 implodes for NC's 23 wis mod imploders right? I'd like to see the build that could make a DC 75 fort save


I've talked about this before with other people, and maybe on the forums too, but increasing spell DCs is incredibly tricky because the highest DCs also have the most severe consequences, with level 9 dcs being save or die. If you could make something with a save or die dc that could kill any build half the time, it is going to be overpowered. Even the hardest hitting melee builds need two rounds or more to kill someone. You can build wizards and sorcs right now with a DC 48 wail, auto-quicken, and 35-39 caster levels. imagine that with a caster level/5 boost for a dc 55 wail. You could knock out half a raiding party instantly like that. Most melee builds aside from Paladins, Blackguards, and CoT's would be instantly neutralized. As it is, a DC 48 imploder build is very effective and when paired with a bard can devastate a party, it is just the builds that haven't gone for the extreme spell dcs that have trouble.

I do understand the issue that the average caster can't get people to fail saves, and lower level spells with DCs usually suck, but you have to keep in mind the extreme situations of casters with maxed out casting scores casting focused level 9 save or die spells. DC based spells maybe could use a boost of some sort, but they can't be boosted too much before imploders and wailers start ruling the server.

[mining]

However, if you do that on druids without dragonshape, you instead get a build that can get DC 48 SoV instead of (somewhat less) due to their [censored] feat progression.

There, fixed that for you

[Jmana]

i don't get it what did you fix mining ? druid gets +1 dc per 8 lvls on there spells now..... oh plz say its true!!

[Tsavong]

mining did not fix anything a forum admin edited his post.

[mining]

mining did not fix anything a forum admin edited his post.

I don't even know what got changed .

[Revel]

http://www.swtor.com/
this is gonna rock Rev,
pre-orders next month

Thanks BlkMamba looking into it.

[Ryddwillow]

the server is moving into a dexer world. RK and AO are screwed build dexers and mages. forget pure fighters unless you are defending, barbs aw nerfed, dwd's get a good crit weapon cause they hit on a crit and you are slow. mages wow someone builds a mage and they are the next brilliant person. Sorry man you lead us there and buffed us and ran around with your hands flapping in the air. You lead us, no biggie, i got away. To good to be true. When your mage got smacked around you got another mage to help ya, lol. The ppl that you mislead are the ones that support this server. I know the deal and it was bullshit, Everyone can hate me, i care less, but the friends i do have understand. Need to experiment, get some dexers and mages to go agianst, fore you really don't have any real talent as a mage.

[mgrjebbo]

Ahhhh, just when peoples posts were starting to make sense, in steps good old willow to mirk things up a bit.

Not sure what you were sayin there as usual but I am sure you said whatever it was well.

[Ryddwillow]

Ahhhh, just when peoples posts were starting to make sense, in steps good old willow to mirk things up a bit.

Not sure what you were sayin there as usual but I am sure you said whatever it was well.

You really need apply yourself to playing instead of chirping. The Bigby's are designed to crush strength toons and have a so-so save vs dexers. 1 bigby's is designed to hamper mages. The rest crush str toons.


Like I said, apply yourself and wonder why all the enemy factions are glad for the changes because RK and AO are mostly built on Str toons. RK suffers the most due to no true dex toon like a Gith. You really should make sense and figure it out instead of mocking me.

[mining]

Ahhhh, just when peoples posts were starting to make sense, in steps good old willow to mirk things up a bit.

Not sure what you were sayin there as usual but I am sure you said whatever it was well.

You really need apply yourself to playing instead of chirping. The Bigby's are designed to crush strength toons and have a so-so save vs dexers. 1 bigby's is designed to hamper mages. The rest crush str toons.


Like I said, apply yourself and wonder why all the enemy factions are glad for the changes because RK and AO are mostly built on Str toons. RK suffers the most due to no true dex toon like a Gith. You really should make sense and figure it out instead of mocking me.

You can roll up amazing AC toons out of AO, and RK has a few very solid AC builds. I've hit a few DR builds for piddly amounts with bigs 6 too.