Bigby Nerfs

[Ogami]

I don't like this new bigby6, it knocks down everyone and doesn't check anything, just ac, but its ab is insanely high, and it can be spammed. The old one had less ab (like 14 less ab on some casters), more damage (it was fun against barbarians), but the knockdown effect checked the REAL discipline of the target, so barbarian was damaged but not knocked down/stunned (like a pure wizard) People with a decent ac, (not the highest, just decent) didn't have to worry about, unless it was a 20 roll (with hilarious results like the rare 500 crit on a palemaster). Target could see rolls (bigby hand attacks, discipline check...)

I think the old bigby9 was perfect: It was useful to find hiders, after checking ab and discipline. It was good to buy some time against fighters (but the good built ones can resist it and dismiss). Also there were multiple checks so you could have a chance to dismiss it, unless you were a half discipline ranks mage, shifter or whatever... Target could see rolls (bigby hand attacks, discipline check...) Some people have invested their +4 books (non me unfortunately, or luckily) have the best bigby9 caster, wich was really good for farming and funny in pvp, even if not so durable.

Bigby 7 has an interesting history as well, It checked str and tumble, with the effect to slow down, fom totally stopped it, pure fighters could just ignore it. People used to max tumble ranks to 43, and often take esf tumble, to make the mage go "huh?".
But for other builds like the 60 regen shifter (wich couldn't afford to max tumble) it was probably the only way a mage could fight it. Again target could see the rolls and check the effectiveness of his/her counter measures.

the bigby 5 sucked because it checked the real discipline like bigby6 but no one complained about it: its already hard to get a decent ab in this game, no one wants to lose that much ab so easily.

Let's just skip the bigby8 because no one really cared about, and a sorcerer has already the level 8 full of other spells

In other words I'm against such big changes without a gradual progression, people need to get used to changes, slowly. You are ignoring the players changing white to black in one day.

[Delisha Zrazorian]

This nerf is long over due and will greatly improve the balance of the game!

GOOD JOB!


at your service,
DZ
Fury

[BlkMamba]

This nerf is long over due and will greatly improve the balance of the game!

GOOD JOB!


at your service,
DZ
Fury

I realize that your new, so i'm not gonna call your a complete idiot
but yeah, when you need to nerf everything in a faction to win, means, yep your an idiot

[Delisha Zrazorian]

You sound like my 5 year old Grandaughter and her kindergarten friends...

"if you don't play the way I want to play, I'm going to take my Barbie and go home"



ays,
DZ

[Nyeleni]

You don't tease trolls and 5-year olds .

[mgrjebbo]

Changes can be good or bad. I think its to early to judge this one. Needs further investigation atleast.

However, while the nerf stick is out- As a player who plays in the NC i know very well how overpowered COT's are compared to other things. Can they be looked at?

As a player who plays NC i know very well how overpowered Palemasters are compared to other things. Can they be looked at?

Ao jobs are already written and just need to be added to the modual was what a certain Dm stated. - Havent played AO but are those in yet?

[Eldaquen]

My biggest objection to the old level 9 bigbies was that the spell lasted on it's victum for a very long time, if the spell did not hit the first time eventually it would obtain a 20 roll and hit. With the way Bioware scripted the d20 rolls was only a matter of checks before the victum was stunned. Had it not been for the inevitable stun and once stunned could do nothing about it then I would not have thought the spell was overpowered. Had the old level 9 bigbies checked ONCE to take affect then last x rounds with checks to free oneself as does stonehold, then I would not have held a negative opinion of it.

That is why I felt old lvl 9 bigbies was overpowered, cast it once and eventually in 3 to 4 rounds it would hit and then victum would die. There were to many checks if the spell failed to give it another bite at the apple. I would have been ok with the old lvl 9 bigbies if it only checked once to hit and if not then goes away, if hit then victum held for the spells effect duration (a reasonable duration) with checks to free the victum, and once freed then free of the spell until the caster casts another.

Builds with upper 50's ac and cross-skill disc had no chance against the old lvl 9 bigbies. I have only successful reached upper 60's and 70 AC on three builds, a monk and on 2 clerics, excluding improved expertise builds since bigbies ignored improved expertise.

With that said the new level 9 bigbies seems underpowered to me and needs a boast. I do like using the level 6 bigbies but do see the spammability of the spell. Of course wearing bldg gear reduces the spells affect and eventually mages will run out of casts. I am not sure what to think of the level 5 yet, I can see and agree with Ogami's point regarding no check/save before to reducing the foes AB by alot.

I noticed that bigbies bypasses mantles, was that intended?

[Rufio]

bigby spells ignore spell resistance, and any spell that ignores spell resist will also ignore mantles and spell immunites, like the rak shifter shape immunites.

[BlkMamba]

You sound like my 5 year old Grandaughter and her kindergarten friends...

"if you don't play the way I want to play, I'm going to take my Barbie and go home"



ays,
DZ

People need to follow there own advice

[Rufio]

Mamba, are you just saying that because that was the only comeback you could think of? Delisha has never been anything but respectful, tolerant, and good humored the entire time Fury has been on this server.

[OpalimTeGolim]

Can we has something done with CoT and pure pally divine dmg now?

* whistles away*

[Tsavong]

To do that you would have to disable or nerf divine might and then something would have been done with alot of builds that arnt CoT or pure pallys.

[OpalimTeGolim]

P.S.
Good idea for bigby 8 (could last bit longer tho). Bigby5 looks like lots of fun too. That one can mess up a toon. New bigby9 is okay, but the old bigby9 was better. There are already lots of ways to lower ac, and you turned bigby9 from something that worked fairly well on certain kind of toons (pure barbs and fighters) into yet another way to lower ac. Bigby7 is more or less useless. Now it will be even harder to stop edodge hipsing high ac monk runners.

[mining]

P.S.
Good idea for bigby 8 (could last bit longer tho). Bigby5 looks like lots of fun too. That one can mess up a toon. New bigby9 is okay, but the old bigby9 was better. There are already lots of ways to lower ac, and you turned bigby9 from something that worked fairly well on certain kind of toons (pure barbs and fighters) into yet another way to lower ac. Bigby7 is more or less useless. Now it will be even harder to stop edodge hipsing high ac monk runners.

I would've thought it would have been easier - bigby 7 is very much a defensive spell that has a pull and a guaranteed slow component.

[Bargeld]

I want to interject that 4 of us MASL had a blast in the Plains of Garagoth testing these out. The battles were pretty 50/50 with 3 mages and a battle cleric mixed up. I'll just quote myself and say 'this bridge is gonna be a lot of fun to defend.'

My sorc/bg has no spell focus or conc/spellcraft feats, but does have epic spell pen (useless for bigs). Her bigs7 used to be far too effective. If you had toons that were focused on 7 and 9 that are now 'useless', then you made too many mistakes trying to perfect your bigsby. Any caster's 7 worked, you *could* take 3 feats to improve it. 9 required 3 feats to hit the harder targets, but it was an 'i win'. There's not a whole lot more to it than that.