Neverwinter Nights .... 3?

[Fehrles]

"As far as character classes go, "At launch, we're focusing on five classes: Wizard, Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Cleric," said Emmert. "We think these represent the core archetypes of the 4th edition rule set (Controller, Defender, Striker, Ranger Striker, Support). After launch, we'll be supplementing the game with more and more character classes, so expect to see old favorites like Paladins, Barbarians, Monks and Bards fairly quickly. There is a main storyline, though we've also added many side quests to reward the explorers. A dedicated player can follow the major tale, but for people who like to explore, there's many other tales that players can stumble across."

there are your 5 begging classes

Translation, "Heres the very basics, be prepared to buy a lot of expansions and deal with goofy new rules. i.e. DnD 4th Ed" :/

took a look at 4th ed and decided we didn't need them when it came out. 3.5 is fine by me. took them long enough to get that one right finally

[Rufio]

I never played 4th ed rules, and have been mostly against them, but i can see why the changes were made. 3.5 rules are so complicated that it could take half a day to complete a PnP encounter, but they have so much more potential in video game form, since the computer can calculate everything in real time. I can see why NWN might be daunting to a non-PnP player though, there are a lot of things that go on in the background in combat. I feel like bioware didn't even quite understand the rules, which is why servers have to work so hard to balance things. I'm going to guess that this new game will be much more balanced and accessible right out of the box, but the complexity is what I love so much about what we have now, so i am having a hard time getting excited about it.

[mining]

Bio understood the rules, things are a million times more balanced out of the box (well, post patching ) than DnD 3.5. No locate city, no wish, mages much weaker. They now only stomp over PCs and NPCs instead of universes and gods. Just a shoddy scripting and game engine .

[Rufio]

I don't know much about epic level PnP stuff, but at level 20, casters are king even in NWN. Bioware took out some of the world ruling spells because they would be impossible to do in a scripted environment as they always involve DM interpretation and intervention, but they did add in some overpowered stuff of their own, IGMS being the best example.

[mining]

I don't know much about epic level PnP stuff, but at level 20, casters are king even in NWN. Bioware took out some of the world ruling spells because they would be impossible to do in a scripted environment as they always involve DM interpretation and intervention, but they did add in some overpowered stuff of their own, IGMS being the best example.

*cough*

1[18:15] <Mining> MAW OF CHAOS
01[18:15] <Mining> Abjuration [Chaotic]
01[18:15] <Mining> Level: Sorcerer/wizard 9
01[18:15] <Mining> Components: V, S, M
01[18:15] <Mining> Casting Time: 1 standard action
01[18:15] <Mining> Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
01[18:15] <Mining> Area: 15-ft.-radius emanation
01[18:15] <Mining> centered on a point in space
01[18:15] <Mining> Duration: 1 round/level
01[18:15] <Mining> Saving Throw: Will partial
01[18:15] <Mining> Spell Resistance: Yes
01[18:15] <Mining> At the culmination of casting the spell you
01[18:15] <Mining> open your mouth wide as if to yawn. In
01[18:15] <Mining> imitation, the air cracks and splits, opening
01[18:15] <Mining> into a yawning area of roiling blue-green
01[18:15] <Mining> energy resembling a great mouth.
01[18:15] <Mining> All creatures in the area take 1d6 points
01[18:15] <Mining> of damage per caster level in the round
01[18:15] <Mining> when you cast the spell and each round
01[18:15] <Mining> thereafter at the start of your turn.
01[18:15] <Mining> Those damaged must also make a Will
01[18:15] <Mining> saving throw or be dazed for 1 round.
01[18:15] <Mining> Second, the chaotic energy makes it
01[18:15] <Mining> diffi cult to concentrate. Any activity
01[18:15] <Mining> that involves concentration (such as
01[18:15] <Mining> casting a spell or using a spell-like
01[18:15] <Mining> ability) requires a Concentration check
01[18:15] <Mining> (DC 25 + spell level) to succeed.
01[18:15] <Mining> Creatures with the chaotic subtype
01[18:15] <Mining> are unaffected by this spell.
01[18:15] <Mining> Material Component: A jawbone with
01[18:15] <Mining> teeth.

IGMS style damage in a durational AoE that makes it hard to cast spells and also dazes you on failed will. IGMS, SoV, eat your heart out.

[Lokey]

And you can cast it during a timestop

Level 9 arcane tends to be pretty lackluster, excepting the horribles like gate and shapechange. But you have further meta-magic shenanigans in PnP too. Not sure how much more spell candy splats added outside Maw for high level spells, did add some omigod good protections like iron guard or elemental body at higher levels.

[mining]

And you can cast it during a timestop

Level 9 arcane tends to be pretty lackluster, excepting the horribles like gate and shapechange. But you have further meta-magic shenanigans in PnP too. Not sure how much more spell candy splats added outside Maw for high level spells, did add some omigod good protections like iron guard or elemental body at higher levels.

You forgot timestop on that list .

Also Disjunction, though thats terrible to use in a campaign because of .

[Rufio]

You can't really consider much outside of the core rulebooks though. There is a lot of broken stuff out there, and it is all optional stuff anyways.

[mining]

You can't really consider much outside of the core rulebooks though. There is a lot of broken stuff out there, and it is all optional stuff anyways.

*cough*
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... post_num=2

Once you can break the SRD, you know it doesn't make too much difference which set of books you use .

[Ajantis.]

Interesting update:

http://www.develop-online.net/news/3770 ... io-Cryptic

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/ata ... c-studios/

[Elagneros]

You can't really consider much outside of the core rulebooks though. There is a lot of broken stuff out there, and it is all optional stuff anyways.

I see you've never heard of CoDzilla. Perfectly doable in core.

[Rufio]

I'm perfectly aware. I never said PnP was balanced, just that things get even more unbalanced outside of the core books.

I think there has been a misunderstanding, I agree PnP is imbalanced, I never said otherwise, yet you all keep trying to prove me wrong by posting things I agree with.

[mining]

CoDzilla is pretty balanced compared to arcane . Its splatbooks that make both of them get truely insane.

BoED (both of them) are really, really hilariously good/OP.

[Rufio]

My favorite is Ur priest. Level 9 cleric spells in just 10 PrC levels? Yes please.

[mining]

My favorite is Ur priest. Level 9 cleric spells in just 10 PrC levels? Yes please.

You have not seen the truely cheesy beholder mage. Accelerated spellcasting progression (+2 / 1) and the ability to cast many more spells per round. We're talking 2 spells (1 normal, 1 quickened) + 1 spell of every level, depending on how you interpret it.

Edit: And god help anyone who runs Beholder Mage / Ur Priest / Mystic Theurge / Druid? / Arcane Heirophant. 3x9 casting, iirc.