Pure Rogue

[Cijah]

He's waiting for the pure wm or pure monk bonus suggestions.

I take it you're being facetious but if not, here are my "serious" suggestions

Pure Weapon Master i.e. 30 Levels of Weapon Master

Master Focus: +1 to AB
Weapon Flurry: +1 to AC for every 10 ranks in Intimidate (Shadow Shield effect). Representing the weapon master's menacing use of his weapon to deflect missile and melee blows. Duration is 10 rounds 1/day.
Arms Master: +1 to Threat Range
Master Ki: for a duration of 10 rounds 1/day the weapon master's equipped weapon receives a +10 enhancement rating.

Pure Monk Bonuses
21 Damage Reduction increased to 20/+2
22 Quivering Palm DC +1
23 Superior Focus Concentration +1, Discipline +1
24 Damage Reduction increased to 20/+3
25 AB increase +1, Damage Increase +1, Regeneration 1
26 Quivering Palm DC +1, Superior Focus Concentration +1, Discipline +1
27 Damage Reduction increased to 20/+4
28
29 Superior Focus Concentration +1, Discipline +1
30 Damage Reduction increased to 20/+5, AB increase +1, Damage Increase +1, Regeneration 1, Quivering Palm DC +1
31
32 Superior Focus Concentration +1, Discipline +1
33 Damage Reduction increased to 20/+6
34 Quivering Palm DC +1
35 AB increase +1, Damage Increase +1, Regeneration 1, Superior Focus Concentration +1, Discipline +1
36 Damage Reduction increased to 20/+7
37
38 Quivering Palm DC +1, Superior Focus Concentration +1, Discipline +1
39 Damage Reduction increased to 20/+8
40 Epic Dodge, AB increase +1, Damage Increase +1, Regeneration 1

Final Bonuses at Level 40 Monk

Epic Dodge
Damage Reduction 20/+8
+5 DC Quivering Palm
+5 to AB
+5 to Damage
+5 Discipline
+5 Concentration
+5 Regen

[mining]

Pure monks are bad enough as it is , we really don't need +5 AB, Discipline, Regen and Edodging 60 SR Monks with DR

The WM one sounds good, though.Weapons Flurry translates to missing out on tumble, but doesn't deal with bigby, leaving it reasonable. I'd also suggest some Iajitsu shenanigans :p.

[Carejo]

Cijah is a scholar and a gentleman, and I both respect and appreciate him. People should love him as much as I do.

[Nyeleni]

Also, there's the fact that Pure Fighters had no reason to exist, same with barbarians, because they literally had no advantages whatsoever. Pure Rogue at least has some kind of scaling. (terrible as it is).

Also, I'm opposed to the very concept of pure class bonuses. I'm happy to abuse them, and they serve a role, but if a pure class bonus doesn't serve a role (i.e. PCBs for fighter/Barb = antiSD, PCB for paladin is... a bit more less-role-serving and more about making it viable and fun to play), it really should. i.e. what the pure rogue class bonuses make the rogue do? Counter HiPSers? Evidently not. Anti Dexxer? Maybe. That would be a good role for pure rogue. Anti-Armor Class would work too, but that punishes a lot of non-dexxers as well.

i.e. ( id est-- latin ) means "that is" or "in other words." It specifies or makes more clear. I'm going to the place where I work i.e. the university.

e.g. means for example ( exempli gratia-- latin ) We have a lot of activities planned for the BBQ e.g. baseball, basketball, karaoke, and so on.

This is a general mistake. Who understands latin enough to know the difference anyways.



That said, the pure rogue shouldn't be good at killing stuff. Stealing, trespassing and scouting should be the prime directives, even trading. And of course placing and disarming traps.
Maybe the pure rogue should be the only class to get special traps. Or limit the epic traps to this pure class. No other class may disarm or set an epic trap.
Deadly traps are still useful enough for the rest of the mortals imo.


P.S. As usual a thread gets derailed. Pls open a new thread for monk or wm pure bonus.

[Carejo]

P.S. As usual a thread gets derailed. Pls open a new thread for monk or wm pure bonus.

[mining]

Also, there's the fact that Pure Fighters had no reason to exist, same with barbarians, because they literally had no advantages whatsoever. Pure Rogue at least has some kind of scaling. (terrible as it is).

Also, I'm opposed to the very concept of pure class bonuses. I'm happy to abuse them, and they serve a role, but if a pure class bonus doesn't serve a role (i.e. PCBs for fighter/Barb = antiSD, PCB for paladin is... a bit more less-role-serving and more about making it viable and fun to play), it really should. i.e. what the pure rogue class bonuses make the rogue do? Counter HiPSers? Evidently not. Anti Dexxer? Maybe. That would be a good role for pure rogue. Anti-Armor Class would work too, but that punishes a lot of non-dexxers as well.

i.e. ( id est-- latin ) means "that is" or "in other words." It specifies or makes more clear. I'm going to the place where I work i.e. the university.

e.g. means for example ( exempli gratia-- latin ) We have a lot of activities planned for the BBQ e.g. baseball, basketball, karaoke, and so on.

This is a general mistake. Who understands latin enough to know the difference anyways.

If a pure class bonus doesn't serve a role i.e. (specifies the ones) it really should, in other words what the pure rogue class bonuses make the rogue do? Counter HiPSers? etc.

Though, regarding pure classes, this might be my favourite set of abilities from DnD relating to rogues especially, Skill Tricks from complete scoundrel.

Point it Out: Grant ally a free Spot check to see something you’ve spotted
Implement via AoE true seeing burst lasting for a round on token use?
Back on Your Feet: React immediately to stand up from prone
KD Immunity?

Also, Spell Thief, that permits you to 'steal' a spell, perhaps silencing, and enabling use of a token which could dispel some spells.

[Nyeleni]

I like the spell thief idea. Not sure how hard it is to script though.

[mining]

I like the spell thief idea. Not sure how hard it is to script though.

I'd say it'd be impossible to 'literally' steal a spell, but a token that dispels buffs and applies them at the same strength to the rogue could work.

[Nyeleni]

Or the capacity to send back offensive spells back at the caster, for a short duration.

[dethonlegs]

I also think pure rogues should get bonuses however when I raised the subject on IRC a few months back, the dev / DM on at the time basically dismissed the concept saying that rogues were powerful enough as is in the right situation. True enough in a mixed class toon, but pure rouges have some serious limitations.

Also, if bonuses were to happen, there is no need to keep to a literal rogue type ability given the nature of the class. Who else but a master rogue is able to 'acquire' some powerful item from under the nose of it's rightful owner? Tokens could reflect the abilities of ill gotten gain collected over a lifetime and could be anything the devs see fit.

[mining]

Can steal tokens from other pure classes.

I like it on principle.

[Sabal]

That's basically an Arcane Trickster you're describing ... http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClass ... ckster.htm

[mining]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a

Nah, I mean spellthief .

[Rufio]

What about some interesting tricks that play on what rogues can do.

Maybe hips in areas of darkness cast off scrolls/spells (would be too powerful if using a darkness aura). It would highlight rogue as a support character either requiring a team-mate to cast darkness or to supply the rogue with scrolls. Similar little enhancements could be given to other spells, for instance, in pnp rogues can deal sneak damage with ray spells (of course ray spells require a touch attack in pnp).

Maybe enhancement of the ability of grenade-like items to make them actually useful (would have to be careful to either make it non-spamable, or balanced in the event of spamming). This ability would be dependent on actually going out and collecting grenade-likes.

The bag of holding seems like a good idea to me to hold all the random magical stuff a rogue picks up.

Maybe the ability to craft one free trap per day to make trapping a bit less about farming.

It would be interesting to see a pure rogue be more about having useful tricks rather than trying compensate for what it doesn't have.

[mining]

What about some interesting tricks that play on what rogues can do.

Maybe hips in areas of darkness cast off scrolls/spells (would be too powerful if using a darkness aura). It would highlight rogue as a support character either requiring a team-mate to cast darkness or to supply the rogue with scrolls. Similar little enhancements could be given to other spells, for instance, in pnp rogues can deal sneak damage with ray spells (of course ray spells require a touch attack in pnp).

Maybe enhancement of the ability of grenade-like items to make them actually useful (would have to be careful to either make it non-spamable, or balanced in the event of spamming). This ability would be dependent on actually going out and collecting grenade-likes.

The bag of holding seems like a good idea to me to hold all the random magical stuff a rogue picks up.

Maybe the ability to craft one free trap per day to make trapping a bit less about farming.

It would be interesting to see a pure rogue be more about having useful tricks rather than trying compensate for what it doesn't have.

Gimmicks. Gimmicks are fun.