Spike Growth, Entangle, and Vine Mine

[mining]

Limits on KDs make a pure wizard the best toon in the game, because no one would dare use a KD vs a team with a pure caster unless it was on said caster.

[Daral0085]

Building for a mele dragon and building for a caster druid are two completely different things.

One can build:

1. Only for Dragon shape, forget about offensive spells.
2. Druid caster with a dragon shape - a combination that doesn't excel at either, you simply can't. Tricky to play with the unshifting.
3. A Druid caster - in which case you will not be a pure class druid, and so you do not get dragon shape.

Have no fear of a pure dragon-shape-druid-caster getting much better with better druid spells. They dont have time to cast them.

#3 is partially true, but people build pure clerics, so it can be (and is) done. Same thing with 30 PM. Doing this with pure druid would be no harder, and possibly quite a bit easier because of dragon shape as a backup melee presence. Party friendly hellball is a wonderful thing, too.

With that in mind, frankly IMO (and as I previously stated) dragon shape is a very low commitment bar. Yes, it requires pure 40 druid. Yes, it requires 30 wisdom. However, being pure 40 druid will make you a stronger caster (better SR penetration, dispel resistance) and you would want to pump wisdom for higher DC. So there isn't even a conflict of interest here, it just means you get less disc. But once you meet that, you can build your toon as a focused druid caster and then just have dragon shape as an extra "I win" ticket, as almost no cost to the caster presence. That's what I think is the risk of making druid casters really strong. You can get AQ 3 and still easily fit in dragon shape + IC: unarmed, especially if you gave druids self-haste so that they wouldn't need to commit 25 dex for blinding (which screws up dragon shape and druid caster equally).

[Twiggy]

kd limit is stupid.

Wow, what an opening statement... what were you saying before about only responding in kind once someone starts it? And you wonder why people start with you.

Already stated here:

...
Also, shifting really messes with spell slots, which is a pain.
...

And my finale:

earthquake is not party friendly (last i checked at least) and they cannot hinder you getting to them

Earthquake is an instant KD on most fighters and melee types. How does that not hinder them. Just hilarious.

How many druids have you played here twiggy?

hehe touche Berg Touche. I should have used other words to say stupid, was poorly worded. Also the earthquake sentence was poorly written. I meant to say that they had no other spell besides the earthquake spell to hinder. The second part of the sentence was another topic. Poorly written on my part.

Not sure what the spell slots has to do with anything. Cast then shift, then after u finish shifting, rest to get ur spells back. When ur a dragon spells don't really matter anyway. Being a pain has nothing to do with whether someone would be a caster or not.

kd limit is stupid. it's a fighters only defense against mages and spell casters.

You could also say "Stunning fist limit is stupid. it's a monk's only defense against mages and spell casters"

You could also say "Assassination attempt limit is stupid. it's an assassin's only defense against mages and spell casters"

Oh wait, none of the above examples (including Twiggy's) is correct because none of the described abilities is a "defense"... they are all for offense.

the best defense is a good offense

also knocking someone down to prevent you from hurting them is defensive. or doing something to prevent someone from doing something back is defensive. So all of your examples could be used in a defensive manner.

but i agree, having a limit on something is very weird.

[mining]

As someone who plays a druid/shifter dragon, spellslots are such a pain that I run with only 2 or 3 spells at each level, even if I could use more as emergency spells, because they get screwed up so often.

[Twiggy]

ahhh, i understand the statement now.

U saying druid casters would have less spells becuase spell slots get messed up by shifting and it's a pain getting them back and such.

But the question i have for you, is if druid spells where improved would you prolly take the extra time to redo the spells after shifting?

If druids had wizard type spells, yet when they shifted they lost half of them, i would guess that after shifting you would take the time to redo ur spells and rest.

[mining]

ahhh, i understand the statement now.

U saying druid casters would have less spells becuase spell slots get messed up by shifting and it's a pain getting them back and such.

But the question i have for you, is if druid spells where improved would you prolly take the extra time to redo the spells after shifting?

If druids had wizard type spells, yet when they shifted they lost half of them, i would guess that after shifting you would take the time to redo ur spells and rest.

Still wouldn't rofl.

[Shadowalker]

ahhh, i understand the statement now.

U saying druid casters would have less spells becuase spell slots get messed up by shifting and it's a pain getting them back and such.

But the question i have for you, is if druid spells where improved would you prolly take the extra time to redo the spells after shifting?

If druids had wizard type spells, yet when they shifted they lost half of them, i would guess that after shifting you would take the time to redo ur spells and rest.

Your talking about valuable time spent in PvP to reslot various spells over many levels... time not spent helping the team and extra time for the otherside to prepare. If druids had viable offensive spells beyond the current, they might take the time to reslot every rest, but then thats time lost in pvp and that always a benifit to the enemy. A bonus with a cost, a bit of balance.

Some time ago, a player discovered a way to exploit a cppl druid spells against the the NPC. And unfortunatly all druids paid the price. I am releaved to see some effort to fix the exploit without diminishing all caster druids. We might even see some now.

[Twiggy]

i don't think any time would be lost. Seeing as if they cast into dragon shape they most likely will stay that way for the duration. and if they cast all their spells then turn into a dragon. they would have to rest anyway to get their spells back. Just make a list of what you had for easy reference so it would only take a second or two more before you rest and are back at full str again. But in any case I would rather see a pure caster with some nice spells and no dragonshape and/or a dragon druid, than only having the option of dragon shape.

[mining]

i don't think any time would be lost. Seeing as if they cast into dragon shape they most likely will stay that way for the duration. and if they cast all their spells then turn into a dragon. they would have to rest anyway to get their spells back. Just make a list of what you had for easy reference so it would only take a second or two more before you rest and are back at full str again. But in any case I would rather see a pure caster with some nice spells and no dragonshape and/or a dragon druid, than only having the option of dragon shape.

Relic PvP will last more than one rest cycle.

[Shadowalker]

i don't think any time would be lost. Seeing as if they cast into dragon shape they most likely will stay that way for the duration. and if they cast all their spells then turn into a dragon. they would have to rest anyway to get their spells back. Just make a list of what you had for easy reference so it would only take a second or two more before you rest and are back at full str again.

You appear to conterdict yourself in one paragraph. "no time lost" "take a second or two"

You can reslot 2-3 spells during the rest cycle if your practiced and focused (ignoring combat communication, ect) any more adds to your down time. That being the time from which you respawn or disengage to the time you reengage the enemy. In my experiance, down time has at least a modest effect on PvP play, more so when the sides are even or close to it.

But in any case I would rather see a pure caster with some nice spells and no dragonshape and/or a dragon druid, than only having the option of dragon shape.

Agreed, but atm my understanding of the Grue Uprising, is a counter to PvM exploits. If there is more to this.. please chime in DM's/Devs.

[Bargeld]

How many druids have you played here twiggy?

You realize you are giving your expectations of how it works to people who actually know how it works and have been doing it for quite some time?

[Rufio]

Reslotting all those spells would take a pretty good amount of time even if you know exactly what to reslot. You are going to lose 9 slots from a +8 wis amulet re-equiping, and maybe 4-5 more from bonus spell slots. 14 spells is a lot to re-slot.

[Amoenotep]

not really if you already know what you want to put in there

[weasel423]

it would only take a second or two more before you rest and are back at full str again

So what is the difference between that and resting to get your full complement of KD's back


BTW, one per level was just a suggestion...

[burrahobbit]

it would only take a second or two more before you rest and are back at full str again

So what is the difference between that and resting to get your full complement of KD's back


BTW, one per level was just a suggestion...

A bad suggestion.....