Spike Growth, Entangle, and Vine Mine

[Twiggy]

Druids get... Well, not much.

YES! thank you! we have made contact!

remove sr and up the saves/lower max damage. make dragon form unavailable if taking spell focuses.

also give pure druids a casting token that summons an animal/monster that scales dependent upon druid lvl and alignment changes the summon type. make the lvl 40 summon on par with the spell dragon knight.

that frees up a few feats to take some more focuses and whatnot.

perhaps giving pure druids a permanent barkskin feat that acts as a 20/- DR. could be an activated token too.

giving druids some slow/stun spells would be nice too.

[--Ashe--]

You could cut the testoterone with a knife here, sheesh.

No pure caster is ever going to stand and toe-to-toe with anything... they are knockdown and disarm bait. I don't care what DR you think you could max to, if you are flat on your back, it doesn't matter what you can do. This is why ALL spellcasters run and cast or distance cast, it's all about survival. Cleric/mage/druid, you better run if a melee comes at you if you have limited disc.

You cannot cast in shape changes, so having a focii in a spell school isn't going to do much aside from perhaps an SoV or Creeping conjure focus where you stand inside it. Without vine mine and changes to stonehold, its hard to keep a victim inside these clouds.

The basis of DnD is extremely flawed, you can continue to complain about how nice it would be to have all these hypotheticals, but its pretty difficult to take a rat's nest of ill thought out spell powers and skills that are built into the bones of the game itself, combine that with how deviant players can combine them with other classes to make even more dastardly issues, and you are talking about a hard row to hoe in a system that's inherently imbalanced and do it all without HAKs.

Could druids of a caster vein use power enhancement of some kind? sure. Is that their only choice? No, they are far from useless, they still have shapechanging (ie. dragon) and pure effect hellball and dragon knight with conjure focus.

Should we all be get caught up in pure class equivalence to hybrids? absolutely not. Pure class is inherently weaker for not having access to the skills dumps and feats available by dropping in other classes. You cannot possibly make it equal, a hybrid is always going to be stronger.

I'd much rather see time spent on making more areas --- for example, how about the astral plane warground home of the githyanki and githzerai, where its all marked as SILENT to force casters to take Silence casting feats, gear for bards to be able to sing, etc. or a Null magic void where potions and kits become more important as casters of all sorts become mundane. a "Through the Looking Glass" realm where the realities of the game world are reversed, good = bad, etc. More 'drowning' effect areas like an "Atlantis" theme to force use of the underwater breathers.

Even more races would instill more fun and activity. Heck throw in an ECL4 or 5 just for torture sake. lol

[Rufio]

Even more races would instill more fun and activity. Heck throw in an ECL4 or 5 just for torture sake. lol

Oh god, Please don't do that. Knowing myself I would build everything ecl 5 just to get that little edge, and then go crazy from the time spent leveling.

[weasel423]

if u where not such a douche it wouldn't be a problem, but when i see it as another attack and an unhelpful nitpick i generally comment on it.

You know Twiggy, how come it is you that is always doing the name calling and flaming in the forums. In every 4th post you put up you call someone names. How old are you?

[burrahobbit]

if u where not such a douche it wouldn't be a problem, but when i see it as another attack and an unhelpful nitpick i generally comment on it.

You know Twiggy, how come it is you that is always doing the name calling and flaming in the forums. In every 4th post you put up you call someone names. How old are you?

I got him beat, I like to flame and call names every 3rd post.

Let me see here *starts counting......1.......2....... *

Weasel is a poop head........ vv

[weasel423]

if u where not such a douche it wouldn't be a problem, but when i see it as another attack and an unhelpful nitpick i generally comment on it.

You know Twiggy, how come it is you that is always doing the name calling and flaming in the forums. In every 4th post you put up you call someone names. How old are you?

I got him beat, I like to flame and call names every 3rd post.

Let me see here *starts counting......1.......2....... *

Weasel is a poop head........ vv

and you're a son of a motherless goat. But enough with the truth...

[Shadowalker]

If you wanna see druid casters again, just destroy the Grue

[Twiggy]

if u where not such a douche it wouldn't be a problem, but when i see it as another attack and an unhelpful nitpick i generally comment on it.

You know Twiggy, how come it is you that is always doing the name calling and flaming in the forums. In every 4th post you put up you call someone names. How old are you?

I'm more open about it, while others are passive aggressive. And i don't always call names. Only when someone comes at me. I'm 22. Not like that makes any difference. If i was 40 it would be the same thing. Disrespect comes in many forms not just direct name calling. I don't appreciate it. and telling them to stop doesn't work. we aren't in elementary school where u have teachers to run to. Mining and i have seem to come to an agreement however. And i apologized.

More areas would be fun.

[Eldaquen]

In NS4 dragon build heirarchy it is supposed to be Druid dragon > Shifter dragon > RDD dragon > Shapechange spell dragon.

The reason druid dragon is at the top of this list is because of its ability to buff using spells, pure caster hell ball, and a decent summon (not great just decent). I do not understand the desire to nerf druid dragon further, it won't make a caster druid any better. Druid casters vs a druid dragon are already inherently different. A druid dragon without melee feats does very poorly in pvp. A druid caster will want as many epic focuses as possible or their spell DC's will be dismal. A druid caster with dragonshape (and no melee feats) only prolongs their ultimate demise in pvp. A druid dragon still needs imp. expertise and other melee type feats to have a chance. A pure druid caster and a pure druid dragon will have inherent differences in the build without having resort to having a no spell focus restriction to dragonshape. I have 2 druid dragons; one is a caster with dragonshape and the other was built to be played in dragonshape. The caster with dragonshape but no or few melee feats performs extremely bad in pvp while a dragon. A druid caster turning into a dragon does so in order to survive long enough for their duration based spells to do something other than decipate because the druid died.

A pure caster druid without dragonshape is not playable at post level 30. Yes druids still easy to level against below 27 level npc's but that is where their usefulness ends. A pure druid dragon without melee feats is not effective either. Compared to ab's available on other builds, dragons are very easy to hit. The dragon's size is a liability. Dragons tend to lack haste which is a huge liability in pvp.

Arcane casters are playable because they have spells to keep melee builds at bay. Arcane casters can hold or slow rivals down. Druids have no spell options to acomplish this. If a caster is unable to keep a their distance from a charging melee build then they will be chain KD'd until they are dead. Druids have no haste, no slow, no hold at high levels, and dismal discipline.

[mining]

In NS4 dragon build heirarchy it is supposed to be Druid dragon > Shifter dragon > RDD dragon > Shapechange spell dragon.

The reason druid dragon is at the top of this list is because of its ability to buff using spells, pure caster hell ball, and a decent summon (not great just decent). I do not understand the desire to nerf druid dragon further, it won't make a caster druid any better. Druid casters vs a druid dragon are already inherently different. A druid dragon without melee feats does very poorly in pvp. A druid caster will want as many epic focuses as possible or their spell DC's will be dismal. A druid caster with dragonshape (and no melee feats) only prolongs their ultimate demise in pvp. A druid dragon still needs imp. expertise and other melee type feats to have a chance. A pure druid caster and a pure druid dragon will have inherent differences in the build without having resort to having a no spell focus restriction to dragonshape. I have 2 druid dragons; one is a caster with dragonshape and the other was built to be played in dragonshape. The caster with dragonshape but no or few melee feats performs extremely bad in pvp while a dragon. A druid caster turning into a dragon does so in order to survive long enough for their duration based spells to do something other than decipate because the druid died.

A pure caster druid without dragonshape is not playable at post level 30. Yes druids still easy to level against below 27 level npc's but that is where their usefulness ends. A pure druid dragon without melee feats is not effective either. Compared to ab's available on other builds, dragons are very easy to hit. The dragon's size is a liability. Dragons tend to lack haste which is a huge liability in pvp.

Arcane casters are playable because they have spells to keep melee builds at bay. Arcane casters can hold or slow rivals down. Druids have no spell options to acomplish this. If a caster is unable to keep a their distance from a charging melee build then they will be chain KD'd until they are dead. Druids have no haste, no slow, no hold at high levels, and dismal discipline.

Its also worth noting that RDDs are, (blah blah blah, stfu mining etc.) around equivalent to druid dragons right now, so blargh.

[Twiggy]

Its also worth noting that RDDs are, (blah blah blah, stfu mining etc.) around equivalent to druid dragons right now, so blargh.

lmao

I agree Elda. Although if the spells where to be made better taking away dragon shape from druid casters would quite the OMG OP BUILD people. was trying to appease them before they started saying stuff. and also I could see if the spells where made better IE better dc's and no SR on certain spells etc. that a druid caster/dragon build would be a very difficult build to beat.

having no haste spell available to them would help even things out though as things could get in close. altough if a monk got close enough it would be a sure kill. unless Druid got their dragon form off. and by sure kill I mean spam kd until he died.

perhaps if earthquake was changed to be an auto KD but lacks any damage. and you are on the ground for 3 seconds. or more depending on spell focus. The more I think about Druids and their purpose on the battle field I see less caster option. Unless he is made into a pseudo mage (which is stupid). Movement speed/hindering spells should be their specialty.


When i see a druid caster I think of a guy in a forest (or a girl to be fair) that uses complete domination of his surroundings to help him in battle. IE. using plant life to attack adventurers/trapping them. Using animal life to attack all while being hidden behind foliage or deep in the heart of the forest. Unfortunately druids do not receive Hide or move silently. their summons are piss poor. and the spells don't do very much. Which only leaves dragon shape. if Druid spells reduced AB significantly, or reduced Movement speed. Or if their summons where made amazingly awesome. maybe giving them an elder treant on par with PM summons. or something would be better. But w/e. I am happy with what I have. And even if non of this was implemented I would keep playing cause I play more because I love you guys than what the game gives me. (that one was for you Berg *mumbles* telling me this server aint for me. friggen rassan frassan son of a toaster strudel)

[Daltian]

I have to say I agree with Twiggys last post, well put.

And yess, I am worried about my mental health now for everyone who is asking. Twiggy please don't be reasonable anymore, that's not your purpose.

[weasel423]

and by sure kill I mean spam kd until he died

This is one thing that needs to change IMO. I think KD and IKD need to be limited. Maye 1 per level per rest? At lvl 40 you have only 40 KD's. Maybe you get a bonus 5 kd's per rest for taking IDK. It is still a lot of KD's, but in a big battle you will have to be more careful as not to waste them (like stunning fist)

[burrahobbit]

and by sure kill I mean spam kd until he died

This is one thing that needs to change IMO. I think KD and IKD need to be limited. Maye 1 per level per rest? At lvl 40 you have only 40 KD's. Maybe you get a bonus 5 kd's per rest for taking IDK. It is still a lot of KD's, but in a big battle you will have to be more careful as not to waste them (like stunning fist)

I normally agree with you, but i think this is just plain idiotic. How many posts was that? Did I get to 3?

Discipline, or lack there of, is one of the biggest tools for server balance.

[weasel423]

and by sure kill I mean spam kd until he died

This is one thing that needs to change IMO. I think KD and IKD need to be limited. Maye 1 per level per rest? At lvl 40 you have only 40 KD's. Maybe you get a bonus 5 kd's per rest for taking IDK. It is still a lot of KD's, but in a big battle you will have to be more careful as not to waste them (like stunning fist)

I normally agree with you, but i think this is just plain idiotic. How many posts was that? Did I get to 3?

Discipline, or lack there of, is one of the biggest tools for server balance.

aww, then the fighters would have to rest poooooor widdle fighters