Rangers

[Twiggy]

Was wondering if the ability dual wield could be changed to work with heavy/medium armors. I was thinking of making a double sided weapon wielding ranger/wm. Except I came across the problem that double sided weapons don't apply to weapon finesse, and therefore must go str build. however if you go str build you have to use heavy armor to make up for lost ac, yet if you do that you lose the Dual wield ability. Or if you could give rangers the feats ambidexterity and two handed weapon focus instead so they have the option of going str builds.

either or would be amazing. Is this possible?

[Rufio]

I think there would have to be a compelling reason to make this change other than "because one player wants it for his build".

If you want ac, just don't use a double weapon and make a finesse dexer. If you want to use a double weapon, just use hide armor or something. If you go str based, don't use a shield, and aren't a monk, Your ac is going to be terrible anyways, so why even worry?

[Shadowalker]

I think there would have to be a compelling reason to make this change other than "because one player wants it for his build".

If you want ac, just don't use a double weapon and make a finesse dexer. If you want to use a double weapon, just use hide armor or something. If you go str based, don't use a shield, and aren't a monk, Your ac is going to be terrible anyways, so why even worry?

ditto.. and back previous recomendation concearning this build.

[LinuxPup]

Was wondering if the ability dual wield could be changed to work with heavy/medium armors.

Sorry, hard-coded (insofar as changing this would be inadvisable at runtime level in such a large module with so many people. But would mean Linux could cheese out the archangels a bit more.)

EDIT: Lokey stop editing my posts

[Twiggy]

I think there would have to be a compelling reason to make this change other than "because one player wants it for his build".

If you want ac, just don't use a double weapon and make a finesse dexer. If you want to use a double weapon, just use hide armor or something. If you go str based, don't use a shield, and aren't a monk, Your ac is going to be terrible anyways, so why even worry?

Rufio, such a naysayer. Yes it is so i can make a build. But for someone who wants option and different ways to make stuff you certainly are shutting this down quick. Since rangers can only be effective dual wield dexers. I am trying to make a str build double sided weapon ranger build. can't wear light armor as a str build. and can't wear heavy or medium armor as a ranger. See the dilema? would open up options for ranger. and wouldn't cause any overpowering issues. just more options to play.


i want ac so i CAN do the double sided weapon build....that's was the whole point. And he was gonna be a str build, didn't i write that in my post? the reason why i worry is because one ac is still one more chance you won't get hit. It's is interesting and fun, and was gonna be more a pvm player anyway. Just for fun really. see how it went down. Also how would you know i'm the only one who wants this? I'm just the only one who has said anything about this.


Linux so it is possible to add ambidexterity, and two handed fighting feats to the rangers repertoire though?


Shadow what was the previous recommendation. Couldn't both be done?

[cRaZy8or5e]

Twiggy, your first mistake was making the assumption that a strength build has to wear heavy armor.

You're second mistake was failing to realize how overpowered your suggestion would make rangers. Don't get me wrong, rangers have always been my favorite class, since I started playing pnp, but.

You're third mistake was assuming that rufio was shutting this down quickly. It's only because such things have been suggested and shut down before. I'm not researching when, you can do that if you want.

I started to explain how easy it was to make a strength build that doesn't wear heavy armor and how easy it was to make up the AC, but then I realized you're smart enough to run the numbers on your own.

[Rufio]

I'm not shutting it down. I'm not a part of the decision making on the server, so I can't shut anything down, I'm just giving my opinion. I've just been here long enough to know that there has to be a better reason for it or the devs certainly won't make the change.

If you just want to dual wield in heavy armor, take fighter levels and take the feats. It is more efficient anyways if you can get the dex for it. If you want to be str based and dual wield as a ranger, either work within the constraints you have and find a creative solution, or just wear some light armor. When you are talking about a str based build with no shield and no monk levels, really, your armor type isn't going to matter too much. It is just what degree of really bad ac do you want?

Everyone runs into little problems like this all the time when trying to make builds, but the fun is finding a creative solution that works within the constraints rather than trying to convince the devs to change the rules so you can do what you want to do. Make it a damage reduction build if you can't get the AC you want, or if your heart is really set on ac, throw in some monk levels and bump up your wisdom and dex as much as you can and wear robes. The only times that devs make changes around here for the most part is when those creative solutions get out of hand and produce something too powerful, or in rare cases when many people agree that a class is too underpowered and there are no solutions that truly work.

[Daral0085]

Ranger is already one of the most powerful classes on the server, IMO. I can see little reason for bumping it.

[Twiggy]

Twiggy, your first mistake was making the assumption that a strength build has to wear heavy armor.

You're second mistake was failing to realize how overpowered your suggestion would make rangers. Don't get me wrong, rangers have always been my favorite class, since I started playing pnp, but.

You're third mistake was assuming that rufio was shutting this down quickly. It's only because such things have been suggested and shut down before. I'm not researching when, you can do that if you want.

I started to explain how easy it was to make a strength build that doesn't wear heavy armor and how easy it was to make up the AC, but then I realized you're smart enough to run the numbers on your own.

1. to be effective you would have to wear heavy armor. Does any str build out there now wear light armor? nope, becuase it doesn't make sense to. You would decrease too much str too make up for it. Yes i could conceivably bump my dex up to 26 and put the rest into str. but that would really hinder my abilities.

2. giving rangers heavy armor usage while using two blades or double sided weapons would make them overpowered? seriously? I don't think so.

3. if this was suggested already then i apologize for resubmitting. However nay saying is shutting down.

when i play a class it is because i want to PLAY THAT CLASS. i don't want to add monk or whatever to the class because i want to be a ranger. if i wanted a monk i would make a monk. I could conceivably make a double sided weapon wielding character with high ac and damage output. (that was a mouth full.) however i would like to do it with a ranger. hence why i wanted it on ranger.


But nvm i realized after i started thinking about it that people would take ranger so they could make a str cheese build. sad but it's the world we live in. Guess he will just have to be a person in my head.

[Shamedmonkey]

Not sad at all. Creative. Smart. I find the fact that you hate coming up with good builds to be morally offensive.

[Bargeld]

Like Drizzt Do'Urden dual wielding a non finesse-able scimitar?

The EASY build you are looking for (as already mentioned) is a DR based barb. If you want all the dual wield feats, including improved, then you need to take all those feats as prereqs. Ranger granted feats won't count towards those (you probably know this already). If you want heavy armor, take a class that has the feat, then take the feat. I know from your previous posts that you would prefer that this stuff is straightforward and easy, but this is the reason why people multiclass, so that they can create their vision. It doesn't have to be a ranger to do what you want, you might find out that a totally different mixture of classes can produce this. Just because it's not a ranger, or a pure ranger doesn't mean you can't do it.

[burrahobbit]

Twiggy, your first mistake was making the assumption that a strength build has to wear heavy armor.

You're second mistake was failing to realize how overpowered your suggestion would make rangers. Don't get me wrong, rangers have always been my favorite class, since I started playing pnp, but.

You're third mistake was assuming that rufio was shutting this down quickly. It's only because such things have been suggested and shut down before. I'm not researching when, you can do that if you want.

I started to explain how easy it was to make a strength build that doesn't wear heavy armor and how easy it was to make up the AC, but then I realized you're smart enough to run the numbers on your own.

1. to be effective you would have to wear heavy armor. Does any str build out there now wear light armor? nope, becuase it doesn't make sense to. You would decrease too much str too make up for it. Yes i could conceivably bump my dex up to 26 and put the rest into str. but that would really hinder my abilities.

There are lots of str based with light armor. I've always wondered why str based are automatically thrown in the heavy armor garb. It will boost your reflex save too!! Its a win win!!!

Your only making up 8 ac. Crazy says your smart enough but i am starting to have my doubts. Just kiddin.

How many dex points do you think you have to add to get to a dex mod of 8? Having 14 dex is a minor loss in the big scheme of things.

[mining]

Ranger 30/monk5/cleric5.

Get enough wisdom and dex with items/buffs to make up the AC you lose from full plate. So yeah, 9 AC full plate + dex. You meet that with +6 to dex mod and + 6 to wis mod, indeed, you exceed it.

Add in divine shield and more wis/dex than you need, and you can be pushing to 80 AC/65 AB party buffed.

[Jmana]

I came up with a build like this.

9 ranger 5 monk 26 cleric. You can go Tiefling or githzerai or strait human

str: 14(24)
dex: 14
con: 12
wis: 16(20)
int: 12
cha: 8

starting stats DO NOT factor in race mods. 8 ability increases to str and 2 to wisdom.

9ranger, 3monk, 8 cleric pre epic.
Feats are - exotic prof, focus 2bladed sword, blind fighting, great fort, extend spell, imp crit, maxamize spell, + 1 left to choose

2 monk 18 cleric epic.
Feats are - armorskin, epic wpn focus, epic prowess, epic fort, great str I, great str II, epic discipline, Great wisdom I, great wis II

unfortunately the build does not have auto quick, but OP said it was pvm so i cant see it being that much a problem.

uses +2 wis book, but i would also use a +2 dex and +2 str

AB= 27 base +7 weapon +4 Feats + 1 haste + 11 cleric buffs +14 str = 64 -2 duel wielding = 62AC
AC= 10 base +8 tumble +6robe +5 deflection item +5 natural item +5 dodge item +2 armor skin +1 haste + 1 monk +19 stats (dex and wis buffed) =62 AB

Tiefling AC =64 +2 racial dex and +2 dex book
Gith AC = 71 +2 racial dex and +2 racial wisdom +2 dex book

NOTE gith loses 1 AB (61) due to starting with 12 not 14 str

Hpe this helps you out twiggy, and i know ranger monk cleric is cheese but still would be a cool looking char to play i agree with your thoughts

[mining]

I came up with a build like this.

9 ranger 5 monk 26 cleric. You can go Tiefling or githzerai or strait human

str: 14(24)
dex: 14
con: 12
wis: 16(20)
int: 12
cha: 8

starting stats DO NOT factor in race mods. 8 ability increases to str and 2 to wisdom.

9ranger, 3monk, 8 cleric pre epic.
Feats are - exotic prof, focus 2bladed sword, blind fighting, great fort, extend spell, imp crit, maxamize spell, + 1 left to choose

2 monk 18 cleric epic.
Feats are - armorskin, epic wpn focus, epic prowess, epic fort, great str I, great str II, epic discipline, Great wisdom I, great wis II

unfortunately the build does not have auto quick, but OP said it was pvm so i cant see it being that much a problem.

uses +2 wis book, but i would also use a +2 dex and +2 str

AB= 27 base +7 weapon +4 Feats + 1 haste + 11 cleric buffs +14 str = 64 -2 duel wielding = 62AC
AC= 10 base +8 tumble +6robe +5 deflection item +5 natural item +5 dodge item +2 armor skin +1 haste + 1 monk +19 stats (dex and wis buffed) =62 AB

Tiefling AC =64 +2 racial dex and +2 dex book
Gith AC = 71 +2 racial dex and +2 racial wisdom +2 dex book

NOTE gith loses 1 AB (61) due to starting with 12 not 14 str

Hpe this helps you out twiggy, and i know ranger monk cleric is cheese but still would be a cool looking char to play i agree with your thoughts

Its not cheese. Its called 'multi classing' and it tends to make good builds. I once knew a tracker who found work in a monastery, and was devoted utterly to Torm.