Assassins

[mining]

They need more power.

They are the worst class in the game right now, bar none. Their best ability is so gimmicky, smiters make jokes about them in bars.

They get nothing but a weak little paralyze- if they manage to sneak up to someone with out getting spotted, and get this: Its an INT based DC check.

Thats right folks, open your book of MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependency) and chalk up the assassin. Int and Dex are both needed as high as you can push them! Madness!

And, wait for it, if they want to even *land* this paralyze, they'd pray the enemy lacks FoM, and that they land the hit, and that the enemy isn't in combat, with, say, a door!

There's been all this talk about how weak BGs are, but come on guys, assassins need a LOT more loving.

Thats why I'm proposing they get hips indoors at level 30 assassin. It won't make them overpowered and it won't leave them in the dirt.

Notable comments in favour:

(to be filled)

Notable comments against the idea:

I'm against any idea that might be nearly as good as me, even if its only really hard to pull off and much lower DC than what I can get. And not have discipline.

[Alkapwn]

No discipline thats a big vunerabiliry right there seems pretty balanced

[mining]

PnP:

Death Attack: If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind.

He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.

Improved Death Attack [Epic]
Prerequisites

Death attack class feature, sneak attack +5d6.
Benefit

Add +2 to the DC of the character’s death attack.
Special

This feat may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.

[Bargeld]

30 assassin is a waste, like 30 WM... you only do 27 or 28 usually, so hips indoors @ 30 won't help much.

I still prefer the 1 hide/ms per 2 (or even 3) sin levels. True strike token could be used to activate it and it could have duration of rounds/sin lvl or 2x that, maybe sin levels/4 turns? Hips won't help you sneak up and strike, it just adds a level of survivability.

[mining]

30 assassin is a waste, like 30 WM... you only do 27 or 28 usually, so hips indoors @ 30 won't help much.

I still prefer the 1 hide/ms per 2 (or even 3) sin levels. True strike token could be used to activate it and it could have duration of rounds/sin lvl or 2x that, maybe sin levels/4 turns? Hips won't help you sneak up and strike, it just adds a level of survivability.

Exactly. Less 1 trick ponyism.

[Daltian]

HIPS isn't a solution for assassin IMO.

[Rufio]

well 30 assasin wouldn't be a waste if it gave you indoor hips

Yeah, I think this would be balanced if it took 30 levels to get. It makes it much less abusable than it potentially could be it you got it earlier on. Like alka said, no discipline is the sacrifice you would have to make for indoor hips, which is the same sacrifice that pms get for their summon.

I abstain from voting though, because instead of indoor hips I would like to see some things added earlier on for some interesting multiclassing possibilities, but i don't know what that would be. Crippling strike for free at level 15 or 20? Would it be possible to modify it to drain dex or con instead of str? that might be a start, and it goes along with the whole assassin thing.

[frogofpeace]

Goodness, not another HIPSer class, please. HIPS is counterable, but totally changes the complexion of the game. I'm always impressed by how Bargeld plays his corner sneak assassin, anything that encourages that would be A-OK with me.

[cRaZy8or5e]

I think it ruins the flavor of assasins (mainly because I hate HiPSing already and expanding it's use only makes me want to vomit).

[weasel423]

I think just giving a +1 bonus hide/ms for every 2 or 3 levels and/or some sort of crip strike (dex or con would be cool) would not overpower them. Good ideas barg.

If you want to see how underpowered our PRC is, just come to the marathon event. I will be making an assassin (and plan on dying a lot and soaking up a lot of xp)

[Daltian]

Heres the idea, give assassin 200% speed boost for 2-3 rounds after they land 1st attack (one that counts as killing strike attempt). Make them run like cowards they are!

[Daral0085]

I'm kindof split on this. I think it's an interesting idea, but most people agree HiPS is pretty unbalanced as it exists already. Giving even more builds access to HiPS just seems like going in the wrong direction.

But then again, I have a stunning fist SD and I'd really hate to see him get nerfed, so I think I'll vote in favor of this change. I'd rather see classes getting bumped than nerfed, even if it means boosts to classes I don't use.

[Opie Crimeria]

I'd vote yes for a more restrictive HiPS ability . .say only available in Underdark, Legion Tunnels and Menzo named maps.

I don't think the dedicated servants of Lloth should have HiPS in any indoor map. So that means once an assassin gets into any relic room they can HiPS.

Hips in a Menzo area map would be the similar ability to a ranger having HiPS in any outdoor map. A ranger is skilled in any outdoor map but I don't think an assassin should have HiPS in any indoor map.

The assassins already have some ability tied to their proximity to Menzo (i can't look up atm).

The scaled hide/ms could be a good option either. So does the crippling strike or something similar for a high level assassin. But there isn't probably a good reason to only 'dip' into assassin like a person would for BG or SD.

[weasel423]

The scaled hide/ms could be a good option either. So does the crippling strike or something similar for a high level assassin. But there isn't probably a good reason to only 'dip' into assassin like a person would for BG or SD.

Agreed that you should have to have a minimum number of levels for the "extra" abilities. Either 20 or 25 levels I think would be a good cutoff point for any "new" abilities that they might get.

[Twiggy]

sounds like the problem is survivability and the usefulness of the death attack after the first strike. And not being seen before you make the first strike.


So something that adds Hide/MS. something that adds ac, and something that makes your second and third hit etc. matter.

Maybe give them a summon and/or give assassin's assassin only weapons that have a 50% (probably less, just throwing out an idea) daze probablity. the h/ms increase token is a good idea. and the summon/assassin only weapons (make it a store only assassin can get to so rogues/umd toons can't use the weapon. Or just put the umd dc of the item off the charts) would add to the survivability