Blackguards

[Shamedmonkey]

Since frog has proven everyone wrong, with Twiggy being the wrongest one all we have to settle now is the answer to his question about CoT finaly geting the golden wyrm. So when is ETA on it?

Hold up a second........how the hell am i wrong? All i've been saying is make the BG better, mainly by making the summon better.

Mining already beat me to it, but I figure I should also point out how you've been posting about how the server should be more RP oriented (incorrectly, as Frog just pointed out). Also that you hate multiclass builds because they're too hard to come up with. So pure class builds should be the most powerful.

[Alkapwn]

I actually agree with Alka. But a ghostwise 'sin should self buff to 127 hide, I think.

[58(skills+feats)+20(50dex)]=78(base)+24(gear)+10(ghostwise)+4(onewiththeland)+4(jobbonus)=120
If you wanted to go suicide build you could go 10clc/30assasin with trickery for another 6hide. leaving you with 2 left to cap out
but your looking at a one hit or die/run for your life situation. Not at all competitive in today's NSpvp compared to any other prestige class
Assassins are not even a good cross class like alot of the other factions. PMs,RDD,DwD,CoT's. shifters not to much but they are a whole other mess of worms(ie 30dc webolts really who has 70str to save vs that?)

And I hate to mention it again but assassin are not hipsr's they get pretty much 1 chance every 5 mins for instant death. 1 chance to make that hit, 1 chance to hide from the enemy. Say you made a caster that had only 1 spell and they had to creep on an unsuspecting someone, with mediocre hide and make a roll to cast your spell to hit then they get to make a save (with usually a average of 50% chance depending on the opponent). then perhaps try to melee with your below average ac and ab. It's fun stuff guys

Don't get me wrong the Assassins are fun as hell to play and level but their use in pvp and pvm is very limited.
Albeit they are a hell of alot better then the old days pre-devpup's assassin love.

ummm and oh yeah Blackguards something something something Darkside......

was getting lost in the seas of random posts...just wanted to reassure myself they still suck

Glad to oblige you

[mining]

I actually agree with Alka. But a ghostwise 'sin should self buff to 127 hide, I think.

[58(skills+feats)+20(50dex)]=78(base)+24(gear)+10(ghostwise)+4(onewiththeland)+4(jobbonus)=120

43 ranks, 10 esf, 3 sf, 2 stealthy, 20 dex -1 shield 04 small size = 81 base

07 robes, 07 cloak, 08 boots, 04 shield, 04 OWTL, 04 job, 10 GW, 02 rings = +46.

81+46=127.




And BGs should have the ability to enhance their weapon with HiPS (is this possible?) for int mod + (dex mod /2) rounds a day.

[Daral0085]

43 ranks, 10 esf, 3 sf, 2 stealthy, 20 dex -1 shield 04 small size = 81 base

07 robes, 07 cloak, 08 boots, 04 shield, 04 OWTL, 04 job, 10 GW, 02 rings = +46.

81+46=127.

.

We have a winner folks!

Even if you gave level/2 hide+ms bonus to assassin, as you can see above that would be a boost to MS (substantial) and for hide....+4. It would let you run without some other buffs, trade out those Malar rings, but ultimately not make a huge difference. Of course, 127 is damn good hide and really most builds will have trouble dealing with that. Even focused spotters have a hard time breaking above 130 spot, which is what you'd need to beat 127 on a reasonable basis.

[Daltian]

You don't need 130 spot to spot 127 hide assassin on reasonable basis since assassins can't hips. You only need to spot it once.

[Bargeld]

What AB/AC/DC/saves does that leave you with

[mining]

Basically, Assasains need some extremely reliable onhit that applied death attack-5 *every* sneak.

AB = who cares. You ain't hitting [censored] unless its paralyzed, then it doesn't matter. DC doesn't matter if they see you. Saves don't matter, because you need to kill them or fail. AC = who cares. You can die gracefully, but that's doubtful.

[Bargeld]

Basically, Assasains need some extremely reliable onhit that applied death attack-5 *every* sneak.

You mean something other than the paralysis or do you mean a replacement for the death poison attack?

AB = who cares. You ain't hitting [censored] unless its paralyzed, then it doesn't matter.

You have hit it to paralyze it. And that's assuming they don't have FoM or a friend with FoM. (or a rod or a friend with a rod) Make FoM protect you from the divine damage in wrath... that would be a similar analogy.

DC doesn't matter if they see you.

DC won't matter if you DO hit it cuz it will be like 40... maybe 42 with a INT +4.

Saves don't matter, because you need to kill them or fail. AC = who cares.

Make the SL PRC into even more of a 1 trick pony. lol 8(

Way off topic at this point... BG summon love?

[Bargeld]

Did some BG pvp the past couple hours and it was fun. sorc/bg meleer vs dex aasi pally would die every time, mainly due to dispel and the fact that the summon damage just plain stinks... but the character could stand there for quite a while. Put a lvl 40 with 30 bg levels and chr 30 unbuffed summon up against a lvl 31 monk with pierce robes and it couldn't damage it except on crits. AB on it was good, survivability vs bludge damage stinks: monk was doing 75 damage a hit with fists and crap ab... it crumbled horribly.

[Rufio]

I still think that bgs are fine. I don't mind if the summon got a bit of love to get past dr and had the appropriate weapon focuses. I think BGs aren't seen as being as attractive mainly because their benefits are sort of mundane (full bab, divine stuff, sneak attacks, decent epic feat list), but that can go a long way. My current favorite 40, raijin, is built around rather mundane classes, like harper scout, but they really work together well to add up to something I am very happy with.

[Cahaal]

Background
Champions of Torm are mighty warriors who dedicate themselves to Torm's cause, defending holy ground, destroying enemies of the church, and slaying mythical beasts.

More importantly, how can they be symbols of Torm's might and not get a great golden wyrm to ride?

From NWN:
The epic blackguard is a twisted reflection of the epic paladin, the commander of legions of undead, the unholy lieutenant of evil gods, and a foul source of fear and mortal danger.

If CoTs get Wyrms, the BG get legions of undead...lmao Just thought that was funny.
More importantly look at the descriptions.

Here is what I propose for BG's. Still thinking about the summons though.

Divine Might: Duration doubles at Blackguard 21, and triples at Blackguard level 30. At Blackguard 21, receives a 50% bonus to their charisma modifier for divine might damage.

Divine Shield: Duration doubles at Blackguard 21, and triples at Blackguard 30. A divine damage shield is also added to the effect at level 24, inflicting damage equal to the character's CHA bonus + 1d6 on anyone swinging at the character in melee combat. The base damage also increases by 50% at Blackguard level 30, to (3/2xCHA bonus) + 1d6. It also provides 1% immunity to divine damage per point of charisma modifier.

Or leave Divine Shield unchanged and add Death Armor as cast by a Sorc of the same lvl as the BG.

Call of the Grave: At Blackguard 24, casts a mass Vampiric Touch spell centered on the Blackguard as a Sorc of the same level as the Blackguard's level. (I think this is the spell is available, I think it's is what Githyanki's get.)

[frogofpeace]

If CoTs get Wyrms, the BG get legions of undead...lmao Just thought that was funny.
More importantly look at the descriptions.

LOL - you should get a palanquin carried by a legion of undead

Triple duration divine feats seems a tad overpowered. The death armor idea is neat (I HATE death armor - I always seem to beat my dual wielders to death on it!)

[Rufio]

That is all a bit much. lets take baby steps first

Tripple duration divine might/shield is a bit much. Pure paladins don't even get that. Divine shield in particular is an incredibly powerful feat without any modifications. What balances it right now is the short duration, which makes it difficult to manage. Also that damage shield is wayyyy to powerful. All the wizard damage shields in the game were nerfed because they were overpowered. You could build something with enough damage reduction to kill things without even taking a swing, and it is quite honestly still possible to do that with what is avaliable on the server. Adding damage shields always worries me a bit because it creates more possibilities for cheesy damage shield builds, but adding death armor just like the sorc spell wouldn't be as bad (since you wouldn't be able to stack it with other damage sheilds and it isn't as powerful). There is also no divine immunity on the server because the server applies divine damage to you when you log in after logging out hurt so you are at the same hp level as before. Adding the ability to get divine damge immunity would undermine that server feature and allow for abuse by giving people the ability to heal themselves by relogging.

[Cahaal]

Didn't know about the divine damage to maintain HPs. Thanks Rufio. I picked Death Armor since Pally's get that divine damage sheild and the NC token does that also (I think) and I thought it would be a good balance/comprimise since it does neg damage and there are items that give neg damage immunity (not full I think. If there is a full neg damage immunity then I'd like the damage type changed to be similar to pally shield.) The triple Duration was a thought for going 30 BG since you lose alot. I figured that since Pure Pallys get that dispel feature this would be something different but still useful. Or use the same divine damage shield as the pally or NC token. That seems balanced since it's in the game.

It was a start. I figured that instead of just talking about it and trying to let the DM's/Devs come up with something I would propose something that they could start from.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Did some BG pvp the past couple hours and it was fun. sorc/bg meleer vs dex aasi pally would die every time, mainly due to dispel and the fact that the summon damage just plain stinks... but the character could stand there for quite a while. Put a lvl 40 with 30 bg levels and chr 30 unbuffed summon up against a lvl 31 monk with pierce robes and it couldn't damage it except on crits. AB on it was good, survivability vs bludge damage stinks: monk was doing 75 damage a hit with fists and crap ab... it crumbled horribly.

your first mistake was going with sorceror and BG and trying to make into a melee character. EMA was the only reason this could be considered acceptable as an AC tank but since the change, the build sucks. what you're left with is something that sucks as a caster, and a base AB that doesn't allow you to be an effective hitter either.

Another hint; using a different damage type than your summon too. That would help demonstrably.

The monk had better AC than the summon had AB because the summon needed a bard and a cleric to buff it. Monks get incredible AC, I don't know why you're surprised that your summon was having difficulty, especially as the monk was going to hit on ever strike, was probably wearing pierce protection, so yeah, guess what, everything was stacked in the monks favor . . . duh.
Is that so difficult to fathom. Watch what happens after you get it buffed. And add a true melee focused BG into the mix either swinging or shooting at the monk while it tries to run. Try it. I promise you guys will be pleasantly surprised.