Aasimar light ability thingy

[mining]

The only reason Aas aura is balanced is because its so small and hipsers don't always need to go into it.

[VagaStorm]

Make my drow aura do damage to all good and neutral creatures and make it +40 hide. Also make blackguard PRC equal in power to paladins. And give me hipsing assassins and give NC their rogues. Also give SL or MA a way to DC48 AQ3 implode with discipline and spot. And give my barb 85% DI... from all physical and non-physical damage.

These are all suggestions that are 'improvements'. It's all about balance.
(your critical topic lacked a grasp of this concept as well)

I might also add that you think that -40 hide is a useless ability for this race. If you did the math, assuming a 'decent' multiclass hider with 105 hide would be rendered to 65 hide: 21 cross class + 4 wis + 7 helm + 20 true sight + 10 c/c = 62 spot. That means that a cross class spotter, with a helm and 2 buffs can spot 80% of spotters. Now try the other direction: 43 + 2 feat + 3 feat +10 feat + 4 wis + 30 true sight + 20 c/c (div focused) = 112 spot... with only 4 wisdom! Add another 9 or 11 for a wis based toon and you get 121-123. Vs. the best hider at ~127 who then loses 40 and is left at 87. Let me lolololol more.

In reality, the aura causes -10 hide for a bright light source within its' radius only. The same is true for darkness aura... +10 hide.

The fact that aasimars dont have keen senses maks em have to hit spot, which maks it a pain...

[Shadowalker]

The Aasimar aura gives them a chance to spot with detect mode, and works well against a unskilled sneak. But in PvP with multiple players on both sides, the aura realy 'shines' . put an assaimar with a non drow/tiefling spoter and BAM event the roaches from Masl cant hide.

[Twiggy]

Make my drow aura do damage to all good and neutral creatures and make it +40 hide. Also make blackguard PRC equal in power to paladins. And give me hipsing assassins and give NC their rogues. Also give SL or MA a way to DC48 AQ3 implode with discipline and spot. And give my barb 85% DI... from all physical and non-physical damage.

These are all suggestions that are 'improvements'. It's all about balance.
(your critical topic lacked a grasp of this concept as well)

I might also add that you think that -40 hide is a useless ability for this race. If you did the math, assuming a 'decent' multiclass hider with 105 hide would be rendered to 65 hide: 21 cross class + 4 wis + 7 helm + 20 true sight + 10 c/c = 62 spot. That means that a cross class spotter, with a helm and 2 buffs can spot 80% of spotters. Now try the other direction: 43 + 2 feat + 3 feat +10 feat + 4 wis + 30 true sight + 20 c/c (div focused) = 112 spot... with only 4 wisdom! Add another 9 or 11 for a wis based toon and you get 121-123. Vs. the best hider at ~127 who then loses 40 and is left at 87. Let me lolololol more.

In reality, the aura causes -10 hide for a bright light source within its' radius only. The same is true for darkness aura... +10 hide.

ok let me tear apart your thoughts for a second.

i was putting into account abalance, if you knew how to read or even cared to you would see that it really doesn't affect pc's! who really cares about balance between monsters and pc's. the only pc's it would damage would be evil toons, and i posted in a way to have people make critiques about what a good damage would be. 4 damage a turn? not that much. But BALANCE you say. ok, make it so that in conjunction with tiefling aura and drow aura it is made null, or even give the same thing but reverse to a class for evil. Not that hard to balance out, if you took the time to do the research and think a little past your narrow mindedness.

second, i agree with making blackguards equal in strength to paladins, good idea. also i like having hipsing assassins, but instead of hipsing everywhere make it in certain places, like with rangers. maybe inside of houses, or caverns? I disagree with having rogues in NC. doesn't make sense. Make a rogue in TC if u want a rogue. having the drow do damage to good characters would not make sense, it is pretty much a black cloud. it does not distinguish between alignments. If you want something to damage good i'd say Githzerai. or whatever the evil fighter subrace is. I don't know what AQ3 Implode is, or the significance of dc48 so i cannot make a good rebuttal to it. also increasing the barb Dl is not a bad idea, but why do you say 85%? what makes that so important? and i only think it should be from physical damage, not non-physical.

Your right those were improvements, but did you see what i did? i gave FEEDBACK and said why each would or would not work. so that it can be improved. Something you failed to do in your ignorance.

Also you are correct in that i did not do the math. However in is only beneficial if the sneaker goes into the aura. and the aura is so small that by the time you spotted the sneaker it would be too late and he would have already attacked you. and what if the sneaker was a shooter? he wouldn't even need to be in the aura at all to sneak!

Your argument is based on if the person goes INSIDE the aura. the world is kinda big. can't make everywhere -40 to hide. also the fact that in order to see a sneaker you would need to slow your movement speed down and click on search makes it a hassle. would be better if you picked a cleric. i believe spot is a class skill, which is increased by wisdom. But aasimar favored class is a paladin! not a cleric. change the favored class and i would have less to stand on.


Let me LOLOLOLOLOL at your stupid, ignorant comments that have not helped anything but instead mired the topic in nay saying and un-consturctive criticism.

BTW the drow aura and tiefling aura already make a person able to hips. unless a person with UV is inside the cloud. But i could check on that and get back to you. I have a Tiefling rogue/assassin i am making so we will see how that goes. Increasing the power, on an already useful for their favored class item, would not make sense. The nightlight for the aasimar does not make sense as is.

I would take to this alot better if you gave me an argument why it would be a bad idea. so far "unbalanced" and "is fine as is" are horrible arguments. because they don't say why! give me a reason why this would unbalance things for the server? and extra 4 damage a round is like putting a spell on a weapon. the ones who would hurt the most would be NPC's. seeing as there are no undead subraces, or races on the server. Although i'm not sure if PM's would count.....

[Twiggy]

I've got an idea, i know it may sound crazy but i'm gonna through it out there anyway...


We have one... 1 Dev. Now while we all understand your a player from back in the day, and have alot of ideas concerning the server. Today is NOT back in the day when the server may have had 3-5 Devs workin on their own time. Today is Today, and we have 1 "full-time" dev and 1 "Part-Time" dev...

Just something to take into account.


*sigh*

Thanks man. I hope it didn't come across that i was asking for this right NOW. or that the dev's are doing a bad job. quit the opposite. it is because of my confidence in the dev's that i even make suggestions in the first place. I'm just looking for a no or a yes. a "Yes, that's a good idea but we are so busy with other stuff it won't be taken care of for awhile" is also appropriate.

[Shamedmonkey]

The nightlight makes perfect amounts of sense. It's a great token. It's not that your idea is bad, it's just that there's no reason for it. Piddly amounts of damage, a, and b, what's the point of improving an already great ability?

[Twiggy]

do you have an aasimar? do you even use this ability? I honestly have never seen this token used once.....besides the times that i have used it when i was in a dark cave.......

[Shamedmonkey]

Yes. I have 2 Aasimars. 3, actually, if you count my retired level 40 one that I rebuilt.

Judgement [FoN] and Torres [FoN]. I use the ability on both of them, even though Torres isn't even a spotter, because it gives the people in my party a better chance to spot the enemy with it. Judgement is a cleric/cot, and he buffs up to 116 spot. Add in the fact that I can park him in front of a door to a relic cradle, no SD will ever get through without being seen by me.

[Twiggy]

Light
From Neversummer 4 Wiki

Caster Level: Cleric 0, Wizard/Sorcerer 0, Bard 0, Druid 0, Aasamir Innate
Innate Level: 0
School: Evocation
Components: V,S
Range: Touch
Save: Harmless
Spell Resistance: No
Area of Effect: Single
Duration: 1 hour per level
Additional Counterspells: None
Description: The targeted object/creature will start to glow with a bright, white light for the duration of the spell. The light will follow the item/creature it has been cast on as if it were a natural source of light.



Taken from the wiki. The ability is the same exact thing that a bard, cleric, wizard or sorcerer can do at first level. Aasimar are celestial beings of great power, and ur telling me that having a light ability is appropriate. If you cast the spell light on a person it would do the same thing......

Continual Flame
From Neversummer 4 Wiki

Caster Level: Cleric 3, Wizard/Sorcerer 2
Innate Level: 3
School: Illusion
Components: V,S
Range: Touch
Save: No
Spell Resistance: No
Area of Effect: Item
Duration: Permenant
Additional Counterspells: None
Description: The target item glows brightly giving the character a source of light. Note, this spell will not affect ranged weapons.



here is also another good spell that will do the same thing. the ability is useless. it is put on a race that is an evil killer, not rudolph the red nosed reindeer. Give the race something it will actually use, as all classes.

[Shamedmonkey]

Um, you realize that the token gives and aura that gives -40 hide to everyone who enters it? I'm pretty sure Light as cast by a sorcerer doesn't do that.

[Shadowalker]

your right Shamed cast light on a PC and they now have a -10 to thier hide skill.

Twiggy, input is good, and you put it out there for feedback.. and your getting it, perhaps from some in a manor you dont appreciate. But thats been a constant here since you left and I would imagine long before you first arrived. Ignore the emotions expressed and try just to see the base opion.

Our dev team is as stated Singular. And after years of scripting I would imagine the code looks like last years xmas lights that a 6 year old put away.. One big mass of wires and lights. Making it so that even basic changes are likly to have multiple side effects that are difficult to forsee and extremly time consuming.

BTW, welcome back Twiggy.

[Twiggy]

your right Shamed cast light on a PC and they now have a -10 to thier hide skill.

Twiggy, input is good, and you put it out there for feedback.. and your getting it, perhaps from some in a manor you dont appreciate. But thats been a constant here since you left and I would imagine long before you first arrived. Ignore the emotions expressed and try just to see the base opion.

Our dev team is as stated Singular. And after years of scripting I would imagine the code looks like last years xmas lights that a 6 year old put away.. One big mass of wires and lights. Making it so that even basic changes are likly to have multiple side effects that are difficult to forsee and extremly time consuming.

BTW, welcome back Twiggy.

gah ur right, i get a little hot under the hood sometimes. I just don't like close minded people who are unwilling to change things because they aren't broken.

Btw i would like to challenge that, maybe test it out. see if light cast on a person actually is less effective than having an aasimar doing it.

either way, as i see it the ability is still useless. and other classes are far better suited to do the same exact thing.

as a person who is more of a walk in and smash kind of person i want items that give offensive capabilities. The purely helping other people out sense of it is a little frustrating. also the fact that it has no benefit outside pvp is a little depressing. seeing as how every class that that has an item has benefits for both sides of the coin.

[Daral0085]

Note about light (the item property). It's -10 hide for the PC who HAS IT, and only during the night, not on everyone in the area. You can have a million light sources and it will not ever affect other PCs hide score in any way at any time.

Second note. Light (the spell) does not make a hide penalty for anyone, even the target of the spell. See nwn wikia for reference.

[Lokey]

Our dev team is as stated Singular. And after years of scripting I would imagine the code looks like last years xmas lights that a 6 year old put away.. One big mass of wires and lights. Making it so that even basic changes are likly to have multiple side effects that are difficult to forsee and extremly time consuming.

The big mess is ns3, it's most of the reason we started ns4. Sure there's some things that could be better documented and such, but mostly things are named and constructed well enough in ns4 that someone can go in and trace how something works pretty easily.

The main problem is most of the low hanging fruit fix-wise has been plucked, and it takes more effort to fix stuff that's now on the usual list of things Bril and I think of as needs to be worked on. Things we generally talk about as problems (outside things we know how to fix but would require a hak):

- Need someone else to fix i.e. nwnx engine tinkering. After that may not be trivial to work with. (Say lose a con buff, lose hitpoints--hate that one. Halfogres should have slime trails.)
- Perhaps not as great as it could be but pretty good and would require rewriting a central system. (Spells in general especially with respect to dispelling.)
- Could be done better, not too hard, but lack interest and/or info on how it works in game. (Maybe some pure class stuff.)
- Could be changed but annoying because of stuff made or out there. (Hate grandfathering and supporting separate systems.)
- Stuff with simple fixes that we just haven't seen or gotten to yet. (I don't think there's many of these left.)
- Stuff we're dissatisfied with but requires too much testing for balance (many spells/abils).

[Bargeld]

Just as my last bit about the 'suggestions' made... I'm not against suggestions and changes, and I offer them myself. Some are welcomed, others are not. My post and the 'suggestions' in it were not meant as actual suggestions, they were simply regurgitations of some of the recurring 'suggestions' from across the server. I started with a simple retort to yours, the 'make racial dark do damage to good' and worked all the way up to the utterly ridiculous, 85% barb DI. This was to illustrate that any suggestion can be meant to improve something. How much it improves it is a subjective measure. This also plays into the devving resources available, as one of the devs himself stated. Some things are so piddly, it may be a looooong time before something is worked on, if ever... even if the idea is accepted en-mass.

The frustrating (and humorous) part to me is that the knowledge, thought, and reasonings you put behind your suggestions appear very uninformed and your responses very argumentative. This is not meant as an insult, but the more you reason these things with veterans, the more you appear to lack vital information about the effects of your suggestions. Again, not meant as an insult, as you have plainly stated that you are recently returned from a hiatus and are not up to speed with all the in's and out's of a lot of things. Look at it from a dedicated player's standpoint and to put it bluntly (without meaning to insult, only to show an extreme, yet clearly understandable description) it appears that this newb who doesn't know how things works just starts throwing all these suggestions out, gets responses and then argues against those responses. I found that humorous.

There is a famous saying that goes something like: 'It is better to be silent and allow others to assume you are the fool, than to open your mouth and prove it.' Suggestions are good, arguing is not. I'll admit that I even learned from this whole discussion... I thought the aura was -10 hide, just like any bright light source. I was unable to find documentation to back up the -40 hide claims, but i am just accepting it, since enough people have said it. Here is where I found my info: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spot and from our wiki: 'Aasimar Aura: Gives off a bright light, Hide penalties to anyone entering it, and blinds Drow and Tieflings who enter it.' (Bright light - which i assumed 20m, per the item property).