Pickpocket Skill

[Merrip]

The following changes have been implemented via script to curb the problems posed by the Pick Pocket skill. In general, these apply only to physical items and not gold.


* The minimum delay between PP attempts has been extended slightly.
* You cannot target corpses.
* After an attempt, your action queue will be cleared. This prevents an engine exploit with a player queuing up dozens of attempts and having them all resolve instantaneously.
* Attempts while either the thief or the target is in combat will fail.
* There is a maximum item weight proportional to your dexterity, trying to steal an item weighing more than this will result in failure.
* Plot and undroppable items cannot be stolen.
* Visible thieves must succeed in an opposed CHA vs WIS check, simulating the attempt to distract the target from your intentions.
* Invisible thieves must succeed in a move silently check opposed by the target's listen check. There is a -10 circumstance penalty for closeness.
* A victim of theft is allowed a reflex save to recover their item. The DC is 10, + 1 for every 2 levels in a class that has PP as a class skill.

In addition, all stolen items are persistently tagged with the original owner's identity. If the original owner should happen to hunt down the thief and kill him, the stolen item will be returned.

Firstly, I have a question regarding the CHA vs WIS check, I am going to assume it is the thieves CHA vs the targets WIS?

Secondly, the thing I would like to discuss is, the DC 10 + 1 for every 2 lvl's in PP taking Class.

Basically a "focused" pickpocket can have a maximum DC of 30 for this, I see this little added feature as a way to make the skill look useful but make it unusable really, my pure 40 Barbarian has a reflex save of 26, this also means anything with some dex in it is unable to be pickpocketed. I find that a bit strange, can it not be a check thieves DEX opposed to targets DEX? simulating the quickness of reflexes vs the quickness of the thieves moves.

Everything for this skill is a ability check except for this, I personally find unless you want to go pickpocketing lowbies up the mountain there would be no use for this skill whatsoever, it doesn't even seem to matter if you max out your PP skill, skill focus, epic skill focus, because all they have to do is save a dc max of 30?

Is it possible to get a remake on this skill, to actually make it worth a damn or is that just a silly thought?

I personally don't see anything wrong with a DEX vs DEX check, because making a DC 30 dex save max is nothing really, considering how many people are save happy with getting any and all of them as high as they can.

Thoughts?

[Merrip]

Or atleast making the skill itself have something to do with it, my character might not be the most dexterious person in the world, but if I have spent my entire career focusing in that one skill, mastering it and all it's aspects, I think your skill should have some impact on the DC and/or checks made to oppose pickpocket.

I also think skills like Intimidate should impact this skill, making the target seem less attractive to a thief and giving them some sort of decrease in there skill when trying to pickpocket someone with higher ranks in Intimidate.

My thoughts on the CHA vs WIS check is also:

I think if the thief works in the Bluff skill that it should impact his chances of distracting the target from your intentions, by description it is meant to be used in conjunction to making misleading body language etc.

With the DC thieves pickpocket skill should in some how increase the DC to recover the item as if they master this art there should be some benefit to it. And on the opposing side, I think the targets Tumble skill should increase there save vs the DC as this "quickness of reflex" with this skill should help them quickly snatch it back.

I also do not see the reason for the -10 penalty for closeness, if they are spotted and/or heard using listen I think this penalty should apply, but I do not see a reason to add the -10 penalty otherwise, I mean the skill itself is meant to be a undetectable skill if you are good at it, so unless you are seen don't see the need for the -10.

Basically even if it stayed how it is I would like to see:

Bluff impact the CHA vs WIS check and on the targets side Intimidate effect this check for the target.

The -10 penalty for closeness should only apply if the thief is spotted or heard whilst trying to steal in stealth/invis.

Pickpocket skill to effect the DC to recover the item for the Thief, and Tumble to effect this save for the target.

[Korr]

Ive barked up this tree... to no effect.


Though youd be surprised what you still CAN pp here and there

[Merrip]

I am sure you would be able to PP something here and there, but here and I am sure this will get not even looked at except by other players who would like to see a change.

But hmm wait a sec weren't you wanting to come back and dev

[mining]

Way I always saw it is that if you can pickpocket anything by weight, then that level 5 holding his books? bait.

If DC scaled too well, then nothing could safely hold a dagger or use an expensive robechange ever again.

So yeah, if its good, its broken, and if its bad, its broken.

[Merrip]

Not if a system is implemented to both boost the chance on the thieves side and boost the defense for person being stolen from, which means it can bring some skills into play that are at this present time useless, and a system should be put in place to exclude currently equipped items, for instance making items that are worn undroppable not including the weapon so disarm is still usable.

That way if you are carrying extra nice items and have not decided to work in PP defense it is open season

[Rufio]

Seems like to me it would just cause trouble if this were made more powerful. There are better things for our dev to work on.

[mining]

I'd agree with Rufio.

I mean, who goes to the planes with a spotter, so when those nice (xyz) items are vanishing from your inventory, and you have no idea, :\.

[Merrip]

Cause trouble? No more then disarm does already.

Who needs a spotter? Person carrying the loot for the party will have to be a toon who defends against PP.

Sounds to me like you just don't want to have to defend against one more thing, so would prefer it to be broken

[mining]

Cause trouble? No more then disarm does already.

Who needs a spotter? Person carrying the loot for the party will have to be a toon who defends against PP.

Sounds to me like you just don't want to have to defend against one more thing, so would prefer it to be broken

Disarm is "Oh, I can use good weapon is bad idea". Also, combat starts.
Pickpocket is "Oh, I can sneak around everywhere and steal stuff from nigh on every build made before the change if its resting"

[Merrip]

I never once suggested reverting back to what it used to be. I completely agree that how it was was silly.

What I am suggesting is a fair way of it being re implemented. Because quite frankly how it is at the moment, it may as well be disabled.

And if they want to disable it that is fine, but considering that time went into making it what it is now, I doubt it or they would have just disabled it to begin with.

[mining]

I never once suggested reverting back to what it used to be. I completely agree that how it was was silly.

What I am suggesting is a fair way of it being re implemented. Because quite frankly how it is at the moment, it may as well be disabled.

And if they want to disable it that is fine, but considering that time went into making it what it is now, I doubt it or they would have just disabled it to begin with.

Eh, the point I'm making is more that its nigh on impossible to balance to be both useful and not... unfun, might be the word. Imagine if everytime you logged a arcane or tailor crafter, someone pickpocketed stuff. Or someone removed all of the alternate robes etc. you have on your mule in the Beryn Inn.

[Bargeld]

Imagine if everytime you logged a arcane or tailor crafter, someone pickpocketed stuff. Or someone removed all of the alternate robes etc. you have on your mule in the Beryn Inn.

This is reserved for DMs only

[Korr]

IIRC Spot checks come into play vs your PP skill... so that spotter in the planes would work really well for not being PP'd.

I never got a response from anyone about helping out with developing ';(

And there is a weight limit, you cant PP books. But things like black sword, lolths dagger, and all those spare robes people carry around are all PPable.


And there are actually VERY VERY easy defenses against PP without any skill involved. Start hoarding those gems. Get a couple pages full of them and you increase the chances of a gem to be nabbed vs one of your goodies.

Also I would think (no idea for sure) something in a box in your inv is not PPable

[Merrip]

In base bioware I think interiors of coffers are not PP'able.

And Korr is completely correct in what he says the more "junk" you have e.g gems, the higher the chance the PP'er will nab one of those and not something else, all that effort for a few gold or a lousy gem? Yeah but it is the theives life.