Rakshasa nerf

[Daltian]

Also, I must say I am more disappointed/worried by how this decision was made then its outcome. The reason Rak got nerfed was pretty much because it killed DMz cheeze build few times. But thing is that DMz was wiz/sd that had over 100AC and TC/NC didn't really have any way to kill it due to it having too high ac to be hit and no access to arcane casters to damage it with spells.
Also, the reason Rak managed to kill that DMz was that either DMz was holding back from killing rak, or DMz toon being badly played.

So pretty much the lesson we learned is that if you kill a DMz toon because you are either more skilled, extremely lucky or DMz just doesn't know how too play/build that class you will get that class nerfed.

Next thing you see is that when DMz comes to play, no one will want to play with you. I sure wish TCNC wasn't so fast to accept you guys bringing DMz toon into the mix during the relic event. Who would of thought some friendly fun would have such a bitter outcome.

[Chaos]

First of all, i was that wiz/sd build, i was messing around with cheeze build, i knew it wasn't legit. so i never really went for relics, it was more just for fun. . . i used him once against you all. . that nerf we are talking about was already being put in place well before this occurance.

i'm sorry that me just wanting to have a bit of fun with players makes Daltian a sad little panda.

[Daltian]

I am glad if the change wasn't made based on those few kills. That was what worried me the most.

[TheEdge]

Also, I must say I am more disappointed/worried by how this decision was made then its outcome. The reason Rak got nerfed was pretty much because it killed DMz cheeze build few times. But thing is that DMz was wiz/sd that had over 100AC and TC/NC didn't really have any way to kill it due to it having too high ac to be hit and no access to arcane casters to damage it with spells.
Also, the reason Rak managed to kill that DMz was that either DMz was holding back from killing rak, or DMz toon being badly played.

So pretty much the lesson we learned is that if you kill a DMz toon because you are either more skilled, extremely lucky or DMz just doesn't know how too play/build that class you will get that class nerfed.

Next thing you see is that when DMz comes to play, no one will want to play with you. I sure wish TCNC wasn't so fast to accept you guys bringing DMz toon into the mix during the relic event. Who would of thought some friendly fun would have such a bitter outcome.

And all I heard was whaaaaaaaaa and then it was drowned out by my own laughter. How presumptuous of you to assume that your luck or even bad playing (rolls eyes) is what caused a snap decision to nerf something. I mean there is no way that a group of people who are members of the staff would sit and discuss changes that might be made to the server over a period of time in order to weigh options and choices....hmmm no that could never happen right??? I guess it must be exactly how you described it....a snap decision based on a DMz getting frustrated because they get PKed once dang

Kindof like a quick acusation on a forum post based on anger and attempting to strike out at anyone who might be able to shoulder the blame or work as a quick scapegoat.

[Daltian]

Also, I must say I am more disappointed/worried by how this decision was made then its outcome. The reason Rak got nerfed was pretty much because it killed DMz cheeze build few times. But thing is that DMz was wiz/sd that had over 100AC and TC/NC didn't really have any way to kill it due to it having too high ac to be hit and no access to arcane casters to damage it with spells.
Also, the reason Rak managed to kill that DMz was that either DMz was holding back from killing rak, or DMz toon being badly played.

So pretty much the lesson we learned is that if you kill a DMz toon because you are either more skilled, extremely lucky or DMz just doesn't know how too play/build that class you will get that class nerfed.

Next thing you see is that when DMz comes to play, no one will want to play with you. I sure wish TCNC wasn't so fast to accept you guys bringing DMz toon into the mix during the relic event. Who would of thought some friendly fun would have such a bitter outcome.

And all I heard was whaaaaaaaaa and then it was drowned out by my own laughter. How presumptuous of you to assume that your luck or even bad playing (rolls eyes) is what caused a snap decision to nerf something. I mean there is no way that a group of people who are members of the staff would sit and discuss changes that might be made to the server over a period of time in order to weigh options and choices....hmmm no that could never happen right??? I guess it must be exactly how you described it....a snap decision based on a DMz getting frustrated because they get PKed once dang

Kindof like a quick acusation on a forum post based on anger and attempting to strike out at anyone who might be able to shoulder the blame or work as a quick scapegoat.

Thats what it looked like to me and most of other people involved. I am sorry but if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

You say you didn't make your decision based on that and I believe you now, but man was that timing bad!

[Bargeld]

I'm still surprised that the topic has gotten this far (and to this point) without any mention of how much Raks destroy most SDs. I would think that the truesight + unlimited storms that allowed them to stomp any non-caster SD would be the reason for the nerf... considering most SDs wear pierce armor, its a killer 9 times out of 10. They could be quickened too. Even a non-rak focused shifter/druid(?) could always take this form and blast most SDs.

My SDs approve of this nerf!

[Daltian]

I'm still surprised that the topic has gotten this far (and to this point) without any mention of how much Raks destroy most SDs. I would think that the truesight + unlimited storms that allowed them to stomp any non-caster SD would be the reason for the nerf... considering most SDs wear pierce armor, its a killer 9 times out of 10. They could be quickened too. Even a non-rak focused shifter/druid(?) could always take this form and blast most SDs.

My SDs approve of this nerf!

Isn't the same true of pretty much any cleric, wizard, sorcerer? They have both true sight and c/c. Clerics even have the benefit of being fully wisdom based because of availability of haste trough a domain and not needing 25 dex for blinding speed. Possibility of empowering and maximizing those same ice storms, access to more then 2 spells and ways to instant kill/disable same hipsers. If Rak was too powerful because of ice storm spell (weakened version), maybe it wasnt about Rak but about ice storm? Why not just disable the spell when its so powerful in its weakened version?


edit: I forgot to say that those same clerics, sorces and wizard have access to multiclassing which means hips, epic dodge and all sorts of nasty stuff. And imagine, they also get ice storm spell.

[Bargeld]

And after all the other coool cleric spells they memorize, they have a total of 4-6 times to cast it. And they would need to div focus, or wear gear and take additional feats to match Rak vision... and even then it's iffy against the good sneakies.

[Daltian]

What do you mean by Rak vision? Rak doesnt have any special bonuses except +10 to spot on skin item. Its matched by any caster casting c/c on himself. If you mean Bioware True Seing, thats thing of the past. Long gone and forgotten, lost before last wipe many nerfs ago.

And clerics having all those cool spells to memorize. You mean all those spells that are better then ice storm?

[rocketkai]

What do you mean by Rak vision? Rak doesnt have any special bonuses except +10 to spot on skin item. Its matched by any caster casting c/c on himself. If you mean Bioware True Seing, thats thing of the past. Long gone and forgotten, lost before last wipe many nerfs ago.

And clerics having all those cool spells to memorize. You mean all those spells that are better then ice storm?

Actually Rak shape only gets +4 spot bonus and it also lose +4 job bonus, which means there's no any gain of spot skills :/

[Daltian]

What do you mean by Rak vision? Rak doesnt have any special bonuses except +10 to spot on skin item. Its matched by any caster casting c/c on himself. If you mean Bioware True Seing, thats thing of the past. Long gone and forgotten, lost before last wipe many nerfs ago.

And clerics having all those cool spells to memorize. You mean all those spells that are better then ice storm?

Actually Rak shape only gets +4 spot bonus and it also lose +4 job bonus, which means there's no any gain of spot skills :/

Now you made sad panda cry.

[Bargeld]

My mistake... thought they still had that cuz they still appeared to spot unerringly. I'll remove my nose from discussion now.

Trailing thoughts... nerfs are nerfs for a reason. I've had a few toons nerfed because when you take some abilities to the extreme, it gets out of line. I don't know the discussions the devs had regarding this one, but I trust em on it. Some nerfs also get re-worked to a fair medium later on in time, so don't throw your build ideas completely out the window, just move on to the next one for the time being.

The only nerfs I've ever seen that were 'impulsive' are when a DM/Dev spies a new build with an extreme usage of an ability that needs some trimming. There are a lot of examples of this historically, like AA death arrow, cleric protection domain, Barbarian DR/DI, even PM ac. New abilities often require tweaking over time and I doubt this one was a high priority. Shapes/forms are also a PITA (from what we've been told) which may also have helped to delay this change until now. The same will probably be true as far as a re-work. But this doesn't mean the game isn't worth playing.

[Shamedmonkey]

What do you mean by Rak vision? Rak doesnt have any special bonuses except +10 to spot on skin item. Its matched by any caster casting c/c on himself. If you mean Bioware True Seing, thats thing of the past. Long gone and forgotten, lost before last wipe many nerfs ago.

And clerics having all those cool spells to memorize. You mean all those spells that are better then ice storm?

Actually Rak shape only gets +4 spot bonus and it also lose +4 job bonus, which means there's no any gain of spot skills :/

Now you made sad panda cry.

Also there's the fact that those Ice Storms did around 40 damage a pop. That's not enough with continuous casting. You can hurt your own party with it (When the DMs were raiding TC, I was actually killed by Twig- and I lost XP when I respawned because of it). Raks have no real defense either, they've got decent enough AC, but they get no discipline bonus on shift and you can only be druid/shifter to get access to the form. So that's at best around 80 Discipline, assuming you're able to get a full +50 bonus, which you're not. So about 60-70.

EDIT: Also I want to point out again what Xenox said earlier in this thread. Rak was a pretty terrible form anyway, there was no reason to nerf it. What scares me is the slow descent into uselessness non multiclassed shifters are facing.

[Merrip]

I don't really mind any nerf that happens honestly, the only thing I would like to see happen when it comes to nerf's though (unless it is something incrediably broken that is being nerfed) is some form of discussion.

I mean the reason the server is still here after all these years is the player base, so a vote or discussion on proposed nerf's would be really nice to see, on the forums preferably alot of talk happens on IRC, good/bad and otherwise. Be good to have open discussions about nerfs before they are put in instead of "Yep here it is, deal with it kthxbi"

[Tsavong]

For a ability that was not much use you are talking about it so much?

My suggestion for spells for Rakshasha;

Greater Dispel, bigby 7, dismissal and greater spell breach. The most potent offensive spell there is bigby 7, which is a solid spell that doesn't instakill stuff or even do damage.

No no no one should have access to unlimited bigby 7s and unlimited bigby should not be combined with unlimited spell breaches and greater dispelling.

Any way you guys could use bigby 7 if you wanted to.