Shifters Overpowered? Just Right? Glaring Weaknesses?

[frogofpeace]

I just want a rog/CoT

[Amoenotep]

or you could just login, set everyone to dislike, and kill anything that gets near you. that works too. its really funny when players start to realize they control who lives and dies

[Rufio]

is this thread still going? has anyone made any point besides "i hate you and everything you build"?

I thought that was the whole point of this thread. I didn't want to de-rail the topic with signs of affection.

[Thorac27]

If i was DM and saw a player from a different faction raiding every day, then dropping relics to an enemy faction this would indeed not sit well with me. But hey thats just what i think. And from what i have seen the current gods do not care about using this WEAK strategy.

And before the whine starts about multi factions raiding 1 faction, the relics never gets dropped to an enemy. When the raid is done the players go to their own home cities to cap relics.

And no Tep this has nothing to do about builds but everything to do with the server.

[Rainswept]

After giving it some thought, I'm starting to arrive at the opinion that enough stuff has been nerfed on this server lol. Maybe we can promote balance by actually making some stuff better instead!



For instance, leave shifters alone, just include in the AO jobs that green aura the DE mobs have that unshifts you.

its all moot we have them we will use them nurf them or dont nurf them either way its good for us

Entire point of factions is to have differences and limits.
We could make mages and use them... no sense at all. Sounds to me like you are bored with your faction.

That would be true, except we reached the point some time ago that the SL/MA and TC/NC are only opponents when there are no AO/RK guys around. Just yesterday I heard stories about TSS tagged toons defending Garagoth, in order to keep the TC relic there. You don't need to make mages, because the MA/SL guys happily join your party to fill that role. It's hilarious to me all these people making fuss about the CoNs, when the SYN toons have been out there forever and a day.

[Shhhhhhh]

After giving it some thought, I'm starting to arrive at the opinion that enough stuff has been nerfed on this server lol. Maybe we can promote balance by actually making some stuff better instead!



For instance, leave shifters alone, just include in the AO jobs that green aura the DE mobs have that unshifts you.

Hurray for balance

[burrahobbit]

After giving it some thought, I'm starting to arrive at the opinion that enough stuff has been nerfed on this server lol. Maybe we can promote balance by actually making some stuff better instead!



For instance, leave shifters alone, just include in the AO jobs that green aura the DE mobs have that unshifts you.

its all moot we have them we will use them nurf them or dont nurf them either way its good for us

Entire point of factions is to have differences and limits.
We could make mages and use them... no sense at all. Sounds to me like you are bored with your faction.

That would be true, except we reached the point some time ago that the SL/MA and TC/NC are only opponents when there are no AO/RK guys around. Just yesterday I heard stories about TSS tagged toons defending Garagoth, in order to keep the TC relic there. You don't need to make mages, because the MA/SL guys happily join your party to fill that role. It's hilarious to me all these people making fuss about the CoNs, when the SYN toons have been out there forever and a day.

The SyN toons are just as likely to attack ma sl as they are to defend it. SyN doesn't defend anyone but its own self interest. If a SyN character keeps attacking you its probably because he thinks a blood sacrifice to cyric is in order, or maybe he just doesn't like you. You have never seen a SyN mage defending NC, we dont use SyN like you use CoN. Why do you make things up like this?

The only fuss i saw yesterday was when you got in shout complaining about a TC player in garagoth as you raided for ao/rk with a tc toon. You like to show your ignorance on the boards but even you can see the irony in this right?

Fuss about the cons???? You keep bringing this up as if we are throwing a fit because you made shifters. I know that's what you were hoping would happen, were not. They aren't the super toons you thought they were, we have always known how to deal with them. When you resort to this type of stuff we just giggle amongst ourselves about your lame tactics.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Just yesterday I heard stories about TSS tagged toons defending Garagoth, in order to keep the TC relic there. You don't need to make mages, because the MA/SL guys happily join your party to fill that role. It's hilarious to me all these people making fuss about the CoNs, when the SYN toons have been out there forever and a day.

Yeah the ONLY people making a fuss about shifters are AO/RK folks and some of the MA/SL players.

AO/RK players can't possibly know how much amusement we got out of the threats that some of your players made; "you just wait till we get our shifters done." And now they're done and we're still amused.

You did do a good job of showing what shifters are capable of. So far though, the arguments you've posed about shifters is to compare them to builds that YOU play with. While this can be valid if the builds are comparable in what they are trying to accomplish. I think that the comparison of Rainswept's HBeaver sd with a drow shifter is only comparable if you have a mk/druid/shifter build so that you have similar builds. Or trying to compare a mage/mk/sd with a druid/rog/shifter is an even more ludicrous comparison as the buff abilities and casting abilities far surpass the shifters while the melee capabilities (AB and AC) will of course fall far short. It's like trying to compare a ftr/rog/sd with a mage/mk/sd, the two will have different skillsets, different feat focuses (or should) making it very difficult to compare the two.


Having done my best to debunk the arguments of others against shifters, largely because the comparisons or statements I believe are too extreme, I still maintain that shifters come by their epic forms too easily. I think this will take away from some of their power that they come by reducing the amount of multiclassing they're capable of right now.


The only thing that I'm truly upset about right now is those traitor Mystral Watch NPC's in Garagoth who keep Dismissing my bigsbies that I've cast on raiders. Now THAT, is a travesty!

[BlkMamba]

Yeah the ONLY people making a fuss about shifters are AO/RK folks and some of the MA/SL players.

The ONLY people that Complained about EMA was TC/NC people, whats good for the goose is good for the gander
When tensor builds where up around 70 AC useing heavy weapons, there's a 20+ page thread on why it needed nerfed

So if you wanna keep shifters where they are, means you also wanna bring EMA back to its former state?
Probably not, which means you have a double standard, its fine to nerf, as long as it doesnt pretain to yourself

Every Toon ive got has been nerfed one way or the other, every single one, mostly because of people jumping on these forums
Crazy isnt the only one saying this mind you, i'm just not going to put 50 quotes on this thread
actaully his been rather fair about it, but the deal is, if you dont want us to have that level of build
then flat and simple, you cant either

choices choices choices

Mamba..

[Shamedmonkey]

Yeah the ONLY people making a fuss about shifters are AO/RK folks and some of the MA/SL players.

The ONLY people that Complained about EMA was TC/NC people, whats good for the goose is good for the gander
When tensor builds where up around 70 AC useing heavy weapons, there's a 20+ page thread on why it needed nerfed

So if you wanna keep shifters where they are, means you also wanna bring EMA back to its former state?
Probably not, which means you have a double standard, its fine to nerf, as long as it doesnt pretain to yourself

Every Toon ive got has been nerfed one way or the other, every single one, mostly because of people jumping on these forums
Crazy isnt the only one saying this mind you, i'm just not going to put 50 quotes on this thread
actaully his been rather fair about it, but the deal is, if you dont want us to have that level of build
then flat and simple, you cant either

choices choices choices

Mamba..

Every single time you post I can feel myself get stupider. I don't have a problem with 70 AC. I had a problem with casters getting high 70s AC with monk and more shield AC than a character actually wearing a shield when they're the best damage dealing toons on the server. Learn to read, please.

[BlkMamba]

Yeah the ONLY people making a fuss about shifters are AO/RK folks and some of the MA/SL players.

The ONLY people that Complained about EMA was TC/NC people, whats good for the goose is good for the gander
When tensor builds where up around 70 AC useing heavy weapons, there's a 20+ page thread on why it needed nerfed

So if you wanna keep shifters where they are, means you also wanna bring EMA back to its former state?
Probably not, which means you have a double standard, its fine to nerf, as long as it doesnt pretain to yourself

Every Toon ive got has been nerfed one way or the other, every single one, mostly because of people jumping on these forums
Crazy isnt the only one saying this mind you, i'm just not going to put 50 quotes on this thread
actaully his been rather fair about it, but the deal is, if you dont want us to have that level of build
then flat and simple, you cant either

choices choices choices

Mamba..

Every single time you post I can feel myself get stupider. I don't have a problem with 70 AC. I had a problem with casters getting high 70s AC with monk and more shield AC than a character actually wearing a shield when they're the best damage dealing toons on the server. Learn to read, please.

Everytime you post i see just how stupid you are, those toons have extreme limits as well, fair game, casters with high 70's ac have a horrid time punching thru SR
not much room for the caster vs there now is there, your arguement is bogus, now post something relevent

[burrahobbit]

Yeah the ONLY people making a fuss about shifters are AO/RK folks and some of the MA/SL players.

The ONLY people that Complained about EMA was TC/NC people, whats good for the goose is good for the gander

So if you wanna keep shifters where they are, means you also wanna bring EMA back to its former state?
Probably not, which means you have a double standard, its fine to nerf, as long as it doesnt pretain to yourself

Every Toon ive got has been nerfed one way or the other, every single one, mostly because of people jumping on these forums.
Mamba..

I have a hard time believing you can be this thick mamba. With ema the way it was you could easily make a char with over 90 ac. (100 ac possible) Is that balanced? We are back to the low standards daral spoke of earlier. Just because you guys chose to make 70 ac chars doesnt mean that it wasnt possible to make the 100 ac ones.

Every single toon i have ever made on the server has been nerfed, so what. Why do you think this is some badge of honor? I cant think of a single class that hasn't been nerfed. Do you think that the DEV's DM's have such a little understanding of the game that they cant figure this stuff out? We point out glitches and unforeseen possibilities and they occasionally act on it, but I would guess that most of the time they see the problems long b4 we do. It has nothing to do with complaining on the forums to nerf mamba's toon cause hes just too great of a player to deal with. Get over yourself.

[BlkMamba]

Made the post to make the point that they are indeed due for change
did i say that EMA needed to be returned to its previous state? No i did not
I Said in short that running around with 80+ AC and epic dodge and str based wpns
or some of the other combonations out there that are compelely rediculous
wasnt reasonable, thats whats happening now and how many of your buddies are
attempting to justify it? I'm not the one being thick headed Burra,

Peace
Mamba...

[cRaZy8or5e]

Made the post to make the point that they are indeed due for change
did i say that EMA needed to be returned to its previous state? No i did not
I Said in short that running around with 80+ AC and epic dodge and str based wpns
or some of the other combonations out there that are compelely rediculous
wasnt reasonable, thats whats happening now and how many of your buddies are
attempting to justify it? I'm not the one being thick headed Burra,

Peace
Mamba...

Burra is saying that you're being thick, and I agree, BECAUSE you try to compare your tensor builds with an epic dodge str shifter with 80 AC. Again you make an invalid comparison as the limits of what an EMA build was capable of was 100 AC caster tank with a plethora of sorc/wiz spells to draw upon, an arsenal of wands, and the ability to do damage to any and every build out there, AND counter the one of the main builds capable of damaging (other casters) with a counterspell ability. Shifters can't come close to that, in any way shape or form.

That's the proper comparison for EMA vs shifter, and a shifter doesn't stack up, not even close.

[burrahobbit]

Made the post to make the point that they are indeed due for change
did i say that EMA needed to be returned to its previous state? No i did not
I Said in short that running around with 80+ AC and epic dodge and str based wpns
or some of the other combonations out there that are compelely rediculous
wasnt reasonable, thats whats happening now and how many of your buddies are
attempting to justify it? I'm not the one being thick headed Burra,

Peace
Mamba...

Yes you are. How many times do i have to post that i dont think they should get the double dodge ac. How many more times i should say.