Spike Growth, Entangle, and Vine Mine

[Rufio]

because haste is the main goal on this server

yup, especially for something that can't stand up to melee combat.

[cRaZy8or5e]

lol rumors. They're disabled for two reasons: spammability (not wrapped in the one per type function) and 3 of the 5 have no save stackable movement hits. Lot of high end mobs don't have freedom for what's the word...variety...and they were getting farmed in some boring ways.

I attempted to fix, got a lot of whining, decided not to bother further. Have Malik on board to test, so we can look at doing something starting next week depending on a number of things.

PS druids still rock, but I can't think of a reason not to spend one feat on dragonshape. Trans druid can have a lot of fun, conj maybe. Yes it hurts that it's not like cleric and evo, but druid has a lot of things going for it too.

Druids do have some cool tricks up their sleeves for pvm. Love that it's being worked on and I personally look forward to what you guys come up with.

Heh, then maybe someday redo elemental shape (decrease stats, shorten duration and add a tier for like 35+ druid maybe)

shifted shape nerfageddon. I like this idea too

The real loser in this thread? Eldaquen. She spent all that time posting ideas and all we can comment on are hellballing dragons and whether or not haste is important in pvp.

*Jumps on the bandwagon* But for the record, if you don't have speed, and don't have the means to slow your enemies or worse, remove their ability to protect themeslves from being slowed, you're either dead, goin to die, or irrelevant (except in set piece battles where the enemy is in a static location or assaulting your static location).

My apologies Eldaquen for diverting from your hard work. I really liked your ideas and hope that they can help Malik and Lokey with their work on gettin these spells back in the druid toolbag.

[OpalimTeGolim]

Starting with Spike Growth a 3rd level druid spell. Bioware implemented so the spell covers the terrain with small spikes. I believe this is the root cause of the spell causing the AI issue. So propose it be changed to a ranged attack causing 1 time damage to a single target, similar as Quillfire does now.

Quillfire
Caster Level: Druid 3
Innate Level: 3
School: Transmutation
Components: V,S
Range: Short
Save: Fortitude (Poison only)
Spell Resistance: No
Area of Effect: Single
Duration: Instant
Additional Counterspells: None

Yay for druid version of Melf's arrow! Next request: druid IGMS, because elemental and dragon shapes are just not enough.

Camoflague:
The purpose of this origianlly was to provide all in the affected area to be given a hide bonus. I propose this be modified so more of a pepper spray affect....inflicting the receipent with pepper causing their eyes to tear up reducing their spot skill. The amount of reduction based on the casters focuses as follows:
no focus...............5 point reduction to spot
focus....................7 point reduction to spot
greater focus.........10 point reduction to spot
Epic focus.............12 point reduction to spot

I thought you guys already have ecl 0, SR 45 epic dodge hipsers with hide around 120 and ac in 70ies (Hello CoN Moi), I don't think you play so poorly that you need extra 12 hide for them (aka -12 spot for enemy spotter). And if you think that spot is of the same importance to defenders and raiders.. well, you know it is not.

Only 1 type per caster per map (so a camoflague, hamper movement and entangle can exist at once, but 3 hamper movements can not).
40th.......................................9d4+1d6 acid....................9d6+1d8acid...............9d8+1d10acid......................9d10+1d12acid
40th.......................................9d4+1d6cold......................9d6+1d8cold................9d8+1d10cold....................9d10+1d12cold
40th.......................................9d4+1d6sonic......................9d6+1d8sonic................9d8+1d10sonic....................9d10+1d12sonic

You also have pierce and bloudgeoning somewhere there. You are missing slash! Oh wait, you have it... nvm. With all 3 types, a dragon druid build would be able to set up traps for up to 306 dmg if I got it correctly.Also, I thought we have a trap making system for those who want to do a lot of dmg by setting up traps. And you need components and xp for that. This can be advertised as "Feels like free traps, only better! Trolololo!"

Pure fighters/barbs would hurt most if your suggestion is accepted. That would hurt ao/rk mostly, coz they are running with fighters/barbs a lot atm, but it wold also mess up SL barbarian horde.

Unfortunately, I really do think that this proposal is not good at all. Overpowered by far. TC/NC are powerful enough as it is now (you won last two relic events). Druids and druid mixes make awesome melee toons. You have epic dodge fire elementals who are crit immune and have crazy ac and good ab. There are elemental sd who are equally good. You have pure druid dragons which are really good melee toons (ask Smaug tlb how to build one if you don't know). Oh and in TC there are shifters which are overpowered in many ways (unfortunately, that is something you have to think about when talking about balancing the game).

I strongly believe that improving druids before first fixing what is broken (shifters for example) will just create more problems. Btw, can I has epic mage armor and pm ac bonus back? And Cheezburger.

[Rufio]

Yay for druid version of Melf's arrow!

This is way weaker than melf's. Melfs has that whole continued damage thing. 1 melfs can do like 200 damage.

Pure fighters/barbs would hurt most if your suggestion is accepted. That would hurt ao/rk mostly, coz they are running with fighters/barbs a lot atm, but it wold also mess up SL barbarian horde.

Everyone uses these builds. Just because ao/rk use more of them is unimportant.

Druid casters are quite a bit different than druid shifters. Improving druid spells is something people have wanted for a long time. Druid casters function outside of shifted forms and need to multiclass to survive, which means no dragon shape. Without multiclassing you have no ac, no discipline, and even with multiclassing there is no good way to get haste without commiting 25 dex to blinding speed, which means spells with DC's are unusable. Even if a caster druid shifts, it is havok on their spell slots.

The shifter debate is something different. It is related because they both involve druids, but different because they are completely separate aspects of the same class. The best shifters can't cast because they don't worry about caster levels or being able to survive outside of shifted form. The best druid casters can't shift because they multiclass, so no dragon shape, and no shifter levels because it just takes away caster levels while adding nothing when unshifted. They can use elemental forms, but they aren't going to do much good because without focus in the forms they aren't very strong.

[Malik]

Thank you for your effort Eldaquen, it's always nice to see someone be constructive no matter how hard people try to tear it down.

[Rufio]

Thank you for your effort Eldaquen, it's always nice to see someone be constructive no matter how hard people try to tear it down.

I like this post.

[LinuxPup]

I generally assume that all builds have access to haste if they have friends that play with them.

[Daral0085]

There's a very big difference between self-hasting and party hasting. You don't always have a travel domain cleric or bard with you in pvp situations, even in team pvp. This is especially true when your team gets fragmented (e.g. one group is chasing a relic runner, another group is defending cradle, a third group is off raiding your opponent's cradle, etc). Even if you do have a haste caster in your immediate group, once pvp (or even pvm) starts getting hectic, 70% of the time they won't be capable of hasting you or aware that you need it. You can't expect other builds to be your personal chaperone, most of the time.

I have a non-blinding dragon shifter and I regret that decision nearly every time I play it.

[Rufio]

I generally assume that all builds have access to haste if they have friends that play with them.

In practice this just doesn't work out.

It might work in pvm, but only if you have a bard or wizard with mass haste. A cleric can help, but without mass haste it can't support hasting more than 1 other person at a time. In pvm people can clump together and there is plenty of time to buff and immediately head into battle, which is why it is possible

In pvp, people are much more spread out, and there is often down time between buffing and fighting, allowing time for haste to drop, especially if you are defending. Someone with blinding or their own haste can save it until they see combat, but without haste there is not that luxury, you just have to be attached to the hip of a bard or travel domain cleric and hope they are aware enough to haste you when things get crazy. If you are ambushed, forget about haste, and while not ideal, it is very common for groups to not be well rounded enough to have a caster with haste.

[Bargeld]

Btw, can I has epic mage armor and pm ac bonus back? And Cheezburger.

NomNomNom

[Rainswept]

Yes, cause I so often find myself thinking that druid casters are both weak and lacking in versatility. What the server really needs is to implement more ways in which they can be effective. Why just the other day I was fighting a self buffed dragon who floored me with a party friendly hellball, and I thought, gee, that poor little thing, how sad for it not to have more powers.

I'm going to break this post down.

1) Caster =/= Dragon.

A 40 druid dragon, is a dragon. It can cast, yes, but only when unshifted. A 40 druid that is unshifted is squishy. Squishy like one of your toons . It has less disc. than any other caster, except maybe a hasted pure mage. It can't run off from things. It has minimal HP, or it likely sucks as a dragon. It has crap AC. Its saves are likely bad.

2) Hellball out of a druid dragon is pretty cool. But yet... There aren't all that many druid dragons around. Either Hellball isn't as awesome as you say it is, or druid dragons don't rock as much as you're implying they do.

3) Finally, I'd *hate* to see a druid dragon get nearly as many options as a pure fighter. That would be horrendous .

The difference between a druid Dragon and a druid is a Feat and a prereq of 30 in their primary casting stat. Let's not act as if adding to the druid arsenal isn't adding to the arsenal of Druid shapeshifters and also druid/shifter multiclassers, unless you're trying to say that the druid dragons aren't gonna set those spells in place before and between shifts, as we all know they are, as Eldaquen is well known for as an example.

Without these spells druids are already some of the more powerful and versatile builds on the server, doubly so when you toss in shifters, all of whom have a certain number of druid levels.

This isn't a faction issue, since as pointed out already, lots of factions can make pure druids. It's a balance question, in my opinion, because druids are already right up near the top in terms of both versatility and power. Adding in these spells will have the end result of more players building druids, which will eventually result in druids needing nerfed in other ways etc. It's all a cycle, but at the end of the day this whole thread is just someone wanting their favorite class to get even more powerful, and in my opinion druids are plenty strong already.

[Rufio]

casters and dragons are not the same. Pure druid dragon builds do not function as dedicated casters because they have no AC and no discipline outside of dragon shape. Laying down a few AoE spells before shifting does not make you a caster. My ranger can cast grease too.

No one builds dedicated druid casters, because the spells aren't worth it.

Nerf dragon shape for all I care, make it worthless, I think the things are way too powerful for the little brainpower you have to exert to build one. I would LOVE to be able to have an effective caster.

[mining]

The difference between a druid Dragon and a druid is a Feat and a prereq of 30 in their primary casting stat. Let's not act as if adding to the druid arsenal isn't adding to the arsenal of Druid shapeshifters and also druid/shifter multiclassers, unless you're trying to say that the druid dragons aren't gonna set those spells in place before and between shifts, as we all know they are, as Eldaquen is well known for as an example.

Without these spells druids are already some of the more powerful and versatile builds on the server, doubly so when you toss in shifters, all of whom have a certain number of druid levels.

This isn't a faction issue, since as pointed out already, lots of factions can make pure druids. It's a balance question, in my opinion, because druids are already right up near the top in terms of both versatility and power. Adding in these spells will have the end result of more players building druids, which will eventually result in druids needing nerfed in other ways etc. It's all a cycle, but at the end of the day this whole thread is just someone wanting their favorite class to get even more powerful, and in my opinion druids are plenty strong already.

1)Oh, and pure druid.

2)Rufio adressed this.

3)Without these spells druids are already some of the more powerful and versatile builds on the server, doubly so when you toss in shifters, all of whom have a certain number of druid levels. ...Yup. They have the casting of a wiz, without the high damage, and the healing of a cleric, but without any good healing. They also have the unique power of shifting, but a shifter does around as well 2/3 the time too. Pure druids, can't combat cast. They can, at best, set up a choke point.

4) Possibly as dragons, but not as casters. As casters, they're barely better than bards. Barely.

Re: Opalim; Quillfire is like *an* arrow.

I thought you guys already have ecl 0, SR 45 epic dodge hipsers with hide around 120 and ac in 70ies (Hello CoN Moi), I don't think you play so poorly that you need extra 12 hide for them (aka -12 spot for enemy spotter). And if you think that spot is of the same importance to defenders and raiders.. well, you know it is not.

I'd like to clarify something here, these toons get a maximum of, what, 9d6 sneak attack, poor saves, poor damage, poor AB when not HiPSing, no usage of scrolls and rods in combat, high vulnerability to mages that have spot.
I'd far prefer to take a rogue/monk/sd like Diego, or a rogue/x/sd like Mcninja.
RE: 306 damage, thats like me saying mages are uber because they can spam 420 damage around with EMP. IGMS.
As to EDodging fire elementals w/ crazy AC and good AB, I managed 82 AC, 56 or something AB. Compare that to the edodging PMs that can be made now, with ~60 AB, 80+AC.
As to shifters being broken, mages destroy shifters. I can't say it plainer. I can tank an AORK planar party in IE for 10 mins, but when that mage IGMS's me, I die. I agree that shifters are some of the more potent melee toons on the server. But they have such gigantic restrictions. You can make a high AB, edodge WM with mid-high 70s AC, and that will have more options in melee than a shifter, with things like mord, war cry, divine favour scrolls.

[weasel423]

blah blah blah Driud blah blah

I dated a Druish princess once, but Lone Star stole her from me. Have to catch him.


"Ludicrous speed! NOW!!!!!"


a.k.a. **spam**

[Amoenotep]

from what i've seen and can tell of how players interact in pvp now days is that haste is only important for escaping. you only need to run fast when your running away. stop running and you don't need haste



also, there are some pretty good spells in the druid arsenal that some ppl never use, and if druids were all that powerful for command i think i'd see more.