How to compare builds

[LinuxPup]

Offensive power isn't the only quality of a class... there are support classes and tanks too. DwD have decent AB, and damn they're hard to kill. I've seen parties get wiped except the DwD still standing there. And yeah PMs are still tough as nails...still one of the most powerful classes even after 2 nerfs. I never saw AC as the PM's key value, but crit immunity (which includes sneak, QP, and Stunning Fist immunity)... and they still have that. Saw a PM kill a decent ranger/something/RDD build and some others too.

Assassins are definitely the toughest to play though... they're not meant to be a hack n slash build.

[Rufio]

Assasins kind of get the short end of the stick because you don't get much out of the class unless you take a whole lot of levels in it and get a decent death attack DC. There are no good ways to use the class by just taking a 10 level dip into it or something, might as well dip into rogue or shadow dancer for epic dodge and other nice things.

[mining]

Assasins kind of get the short end of the stick because you don't get much out of the class unless you take a whole lot of levels in it and get a decent death attack DC. There are no good ways to use the class by just taking a 10 level dip into it or something, might as well dip into rogue or shadow dancer for epic dodge and other nice things.

19 levels of sin in a build with anything gives 2 great dexes, 10d6 death attack, II, and a little ability goodness.

[Daral0085]

*Puts on benedict arnold hat*

Just a friendly reminder to NC/TC players to not post strategies for how to beat shifters. Thank you for your cooperation.

Edit: If you're afraid of shifter nerfs, feel free to PM these strategies to the devs, I'm sure they'll appreciate the feedback for how shifters are vulnerable to... *cough* various things.

[Eldaquen]

And in the end, TC/NC don't get mages, and any mage worth its salt will kill a kobold or any other epic humanoid shapes/wildshapes. The epic feated shapes (outsider, dragon, construct, etc) should be imo difficult to beat, but you can't multiclass to take them (which is balancing in and of itself). For TC, druids keep getting no caster love, creeping doom=nerfed, vine mine (arguably one of their most powerful spells) =nerfed, some other spells got a little love, but those that allow for helping a caster maintain that all important distance between them and a big hitter are gettin extremely limited. SoV ftw is one of the few tools left in the druid toolbox, among other spells, spike growth is another good one.

Red color added to bring forth section. As of this post spike growth as well as entangle and vine mine are disabled.

[Alkapwn]

Assasins kind of get the short end of the stick because you don't get much out of the class unless you take a whole lot of levels in it and get a decent death attack DC. There are no good ways to use the class by just taking a 10 level dip into it or something, might as well dip into rogue or shadow dancer for epic dodge and other nice things.

19 levels of sin in a build with anything gives 2 great dexes, 10d6 death attack, II, and a little ability goodness.

Rogue is much superior in almost every respect besides the one shot. All the tokens and extra's can easily be obtained with umd. Getting the para attack is not an easy thing to achieve although the instant death poison is much easier. I think if the Ethereal was extended say 1rd with 20sinslvls, 2rds w/25 , 3rds w/30. It would be much more useable in mass pvp. otherwise he's just a solo sneaker that onehits and runs like hell to hide again

[Ryddwillow]

Rogue is much superior in almost every respect besides the one shot. All the tokens and extra's can easily be obtained with umd. Getting the para attack is not an easy thing to achieve although the instant death poison is much easier. I think if the Ethereal was extended say 1rd with 20sinslvls, 2rds w/25 , 3rds w/30. It would be much more useable in mass pvp. otherwise he's just a solo sneaker that onehits and runs like hell to hide again

If you the ability to use darkness, ya you can level an assassin, not a easy toon to lvl. I pked a lot of toons in SL, but outside of SL the assassin sucks. The DC stinks compared to the items you can use to fortify your fort dc. Not hard to figure that one out. I mean linux pup got his assassin out when i was a true barb and he got me, but he was always running from all of my teammates, so he would run back and forth, back and forth, until I whacked him for a crit of 496, dead. He cept trying again and again. He won most battles with the uber sneaking equipment he was wearing, but he kept running in circles to make a kill. I built one and was quite successful, pked a pure fighter 5 times in a row (heehee). but the DC's stink compared to the equipment that is givin out by bossess. So now I need to build some crap monk of a dc 55 to get somewhere? Are we progressing here? You tell me?
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[Tru3Fals3]

Offensive power isn't the only quality of a class... there are support classes and tanks too. DwD have decent AB, and damn they're hard to kill. I've seen parties get wiped except the DwD still standing there. And yeah PMs are still tough as nails...still one of the most powerful classes even after 2 nerfs. I never saw AC as the PM's key value, but crit immunity (which includes sneak, QP, and Stunning Fist immunity)... and they still have that. Saw a PM kill a decent ranger/something/RDD build and some others too.

Assassins are definitely the toughest to play though... they're not meant to be a hack n slash build.

sure dwds can take some dmg, but thats it (decent ab means crap ab), its all they got and when a golem can do it better (more ac, more dr, more ab, more dmg, immune to crits, sneak, stun, keen senses, any race, spell immunities, stupid regen) then it becomes an incredibly weak class, not as bad as assassins but certainly close (poor assassins are the only prestige class that is useless in planar runs and most pvm), a huge part of my gripe with dwds is that its the only unique prestige class that cant be made with keen senses, a MASSIVE disadvantage

[BlkMamba]

or spell resist
this thread is based on pvp standings mainly
dwd just isnt good for pvp
yeah they sustain alot of damage
but for pvp they just dont have much use

[cRaZy8or5e]

Offensive power isn't the only quality of a class... there are support classes and tanks too. DwD have decent AB, and damn they're hard to kill. I've seen parties get wiped except the DwD still standing there. And yeah PMs are still tough as nails...still one of the most powerful classes even after 2 nerfs. I never saw AC as the PM's key value, but crit immunity (which includes sneak, QP, and Stunning Fist immunity)... and they still have that. Saw a PM kill a decent ranger/something/RDD build and some others too.

Assassins are definitely the toughest to play though... they're not meant to be a hack n slash build.

sure dwds can take some dmg, but thats it (decent ab means crap ab), its all they got and when a golem can do it better (more ac, more dr, more ab, more dmg, immune to crits, sneak, stun, keen senses, any race, spell immunities, stupid regen) then it becomes an incredibly weak class, not as bad as assassins but certainly close (poor assassins are the only prestige class that is useless in planar runs and most pvm), a huge part of my gripe with dwds is that its the only unique prestige class that cant be made with keen senses, a MASSIVE disadvantage

That's rough.

The key is to focus on what you can do, not what you can't though. And definitely don't think about what other PRC's can do otherwise you'll just confuse yourself and only see what you can't do. You can't make progress thinking about how you're lacking. For instance *drops dime* a shifted shape can't just switch up to a ranged weapon, or recast buffs or cast a heal spell. A DwD is much more versatile than a construct. The immunities that constructs get are nice but they have even less AB than a DwD. IF I need a big thing to hide behind that can survive for a good amount of time against melee toons well gimme a construct. IF I need something that can take a licking, take care of itself, and bite back a bit, gimme a DwD. One skill that every DwD should have, TAUNT (best ability to survive a round taunting something after a PM build).

[LinuxPup]

DwD's are the in the low 60s ab... that's good.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

Dwd's don't get taunt. and most dwarfs suffer a charisma penalty. It be hard to make a good taunter. Nice idea though. Your right that being flatfooted while taunting would be no concern for a dwd.

Even a Str based DWD has trouble dealing enough damage to be more than a thorn even if AB were good enough to hit often. They really are only valuable in PVM cause if we brought one in battle you'd just ignore it until everyone else was dead.

- glow -

[Alkapwn]

I think your underrating DWD. sneakimmunity is huge . I've seen dwd's take out fighters,wm,barbs without little problem. Survivability is a huge bonus in relic wars. admitedly a solo dwd is not very impressive but with the right support is quite a vicious tank AC doesnt really play a big part when you running around with that kind of DR and resists. Saves are mid range depending on build which can easily be boosted with well planned gear + song + ava

[rocketkai]

Oh really? try to build a 20dru/2ftr/18DwD or 20dru/6mnk/14DwD or 21dru/whatever/14DwD? with like selfbuffed (almost the same with no buffs) 60ab/80ac with immu ch and 21/- dr... I couldn't say those build are not good for pvp.. Wait, I guess ya guys should have already built a lot of them and ya dont need me to tell ya how to build them, right?

or spell resist
this thread is based on pvp standings mainly
dwd just isnt good for pvp
yeah they sustain alot of damage
but for pvp they just dont have much use

[mining]

Oh really? try to build a 20dru/2ftr/18DwD or 20dru/6mnk/14DwD or 21dru/whatever/14DwD? with like selfbuffed 60ab/80ac with immu ch and 21/- dr... I couldn't say those build are not good for pvp.. Wait, I guess ya guys should have already built a lot of them and ya dont need me to tell ya how to build them, right?

or spell resist
this thread is based on pvp standings mainly
dwd just isnt good for pvp
yeah they sustain alot of damage
but for pvp they just dont have much use

Or even (gadzooks) a DWD with some cleric in it, for the "Full Heal" spells of dooom.