thats why i put an example of dex penalties scaling with the size of the shield. as it sits you can be a pure dex'r with a tower shield...and thats just ridiculous.
i like the active discussion you guys have putting forth and some of the ideas/comprimises look promising if there was a solid base. keep in mind coming up with stuff like this takes a while to hammer out and figure out how players will exploit it
which is why change takes a long time.
Mask, Lord of the Shadows
Gruumsh, One-Eye amoenotep@hotmail.com
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a pure dex'r with a tower shield...and that's just ridiculous.
No it is not, if they have enough strength to carry the thing they have enough to use it in combat with out penalties. Tower Shields are quite heavy now so a dex build with low strength can't relay get away with carrying say 3 towers to swap for DR and still be able to make off with a relic.
Armour impeding dex ac is a different thing as that is strapped on you and will imped your movement with a shield all you need to be is strong enough to move it to face what ever is attacking you.
I personally think are armour system is what it is and yes it could be changed to be more realistic but I think that would be a large upheaval and could kill a lot of builds. I think a small tweak like taking some DR, may be takeing 5 DI and DR form level 30 type clothing. But I don't see a need for a whole sale re-design of the armour system as it works.
Melkor of Mellifeur {GODS}, Banshee {GODS}, Warlock {GODS}
MrAsimov wrote:...one thing has become fairly obvious to me: NC is already full of a bunch of rogues.
if your a dex based build your whole line of defense is moving from the hits. have you ever tried to duck, dodge, and move with something the size of another human on your arm
Mask, Lord of the Shadows
Gruumsh, One-Eye amoenotep@hotmail.com
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Well no I could not do that but the characters that we make are the elite and part of dodging is putting that thing the size of another human on your arm in front of what ever is coming at you. They are also trained how to fight with a shield to say just because you use dodging from dex to avoid getting hit dose not mean you would not also use a shield to block things form hitting you. In fact because you would not use armour a shield to block attacks would be more important
If we are going for realism we should change it some how so that shields do not count if you are flanked or flat footed as how can you move it to block someone behind you or to block an attack you were not ready for.
Melkor of Mellifeur {GODS}, Banshee {GODS}, Warlock {GODS}
MrAsimov wrote:...one thing has become fairly obvious to me: NC is already full of a bunch of rogues.
yeah let's not get crazy - down the realism path comes requirements for iron rations and resting only in certain locations. Just a little boost to help out armor vs. robes is all thats needed. higher DR etc. vs. higher AC seems the way to go.
Three years of nursery school and you think you know it all. - Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr
I need to ask not to ruin light and medium armors.
As it is not we have robes which allow highest ac toons which everybody agrees shouldn't have as much DR and/or immunities to physical since their AC protects them anyway.
Then we have heavy armor that has low ac but would keep current physical DR and immunities since they haven't got high AC to protect them.
We also have Medium and Light armors that have lowest AC right now and someone suggested that they get lower physical immunities and DR then Heavy just because they are called Medium and Light.
Lets not go towards real word realism here. No one would use lowest AC and lowest DR/immunities armor. It simply doesn't make sense. And elemental immunities simply can't compare to physical ones, making them higher, even 100% simply wouldn't make up for lost physical protection,
I suggest lowering DR and/or immunities on robes and leaving all other armors as they are.
"Realism" can be a dangerous path. "Role-playing" could soon follow, slinking into Aetheria. NS would turn into the new 'City of Arabel'. Players would role-play everything from marriages to bowel movements......Yikes!
OK so basically, everyone would just make STR based builds because even though they would have lower/about the same AC as they do now, they'd have DR/DI that rivals Dwarven Defenders.
STR based crit immune PMs even with their lowered AC would be taking miniscule damage.
Shifters would probably get the most benefit, they could wear plate and tower shields and get all the positives and none of the negatives.
Plate wearing Dwarven Defenders... hmm.
Sounds good, lets do it. It must be easier than say copy and pasting some job code for AO or making new planes, areas, other worthy things etc.
It looks to me like this is the result of too many cooks spoiling the pot over the years and no clear cohesive goal to achieve. PnP isn't balanced, but an attempt was made to do so. Things that are imbalanced have been left untouched because they adhere to PnP. Big mess all around. I'd say leave well enough alone and move on to better things.
OK so basically, everyone would just make STR based builds because even though they would have lower/about the same AC as they do now, they'd have DR/DI that rivals Dwarven Defenders.
There was something else I wanted to address in ns5 base armors that I forget (Flailer did the endless item properties lists). But the base numbers are easy to change and have proper feedback there. Might be able to do that on ns4, but all the descriptions would be wrong (the stepchild ac + dex = 7 or 8 armors without the PnP parts that make them work). Can lower the dex cap on robes (currently default of 100), but it's monk that's the main problem and this wouldn't address it.
Iffy on dex penalties on shields. Means cast UEF, equip shield, stay away from stuff with mords.
On polymorph: just had to get all the disparate things running off the same code without the crash bugs, tweaking isn't that bad. We just revisit the stopgap double dodge bonus deal and things like physical protections on dragons.
Tep wrote:I login and there's a dwarf to kill. You can't ask for much more than that.
Alkapwn wrote:NC has the most amazing melee build there is. Its a friggin unstopable juggernaut of pain.
I'm worried about changing something that isn't broken and that would have server wide impact to all toons. Everyone please look at what you are asking for and then question yourself about how important it is to change the armor and shields. This is great feedback to the many devs working on NS5, but with only 1 dev working here why would we turn one of the basics of building upside down and have to deal with the fallout?
If the discussion here is about making the light and medium armors only more usefull, then ask yourself this:
Is it worth building a toon by mixing STR and DEX and suffer the AB penalties? The answer for any kind of shifter is yes because they have fixed stats and can pick and chose the properties on the armor that will give them the best increases. For everyone one else, why get enough dex to wear light armor with a DEX cap of 8 and not go all the way DEX and boost your AB or just go STR based. Anywhere in between results in diminishing returns.
Just my $0.02
Aiea the Chaos
Aseneth
Blood Orchid
Ipomoea
Ange au Demon
Acuity
