It's a tough world out there.

[Rainswept]

if you're worried about getting tricked by the pwnd guys, all our crafters are so carefully named, "PWnD_Crafter_Arcane" etc. You won't be fooled by us.

Also true of RR, all crafters are tagged.

Since this topic has gone the direction of new players

It has, but I also want to mention that many of the same difficulties are experienced by non-guilded players and those who play in Off-Peak hours.

This thread is coming along nicely, lots of viewpoints being expressed and points made.

[burrahobbit]

I lvl most of my stuff to 40 solo for the most part, you dont need a huge group.

My first 5 chars were worthless and i never lvld them past 20, yeah it kinda sucks, thats what learning a new server is all about.

I have never heard a new player leave the server because its too hard. I do see them leave because we dont have +20 weapons and the lack of haste boots. Do you really want them to stick around? Oh i get it, you need a fresh crop of new player lowbies to do drive-bye's on right? (just kiddin.... sorta)

As i am the King Whiner of the server , i gotta hand it to you Rain, your giving me a run for my money to gain the top spot on the whiner grand stand.....

[LinuxPup]

Anyway this post is getting long, so let me sum up. NS4 kicks a lot of butt, and we all very much love the difficulty in endgame areas like DWP etc. We also appreciate and understand that making leveling tough adds a certain amount of meaning and appreciation for achieving 40. I really think some thought should be given to raising the amount of XP received from monsters in many areas, however. We could really really use some tweaks that just make leveling a bit less monotonous. Challenge is fun, challenge with very little reward is much less fun.

Well as far as the original post is concerned, I think this is primarily job for the player base, not the devs. Neversummer 4 has always been focused on team play, not soloing (although you can if you want and good enough)... Some of you should (and do) take newbies under your wing and show them the ropes. So what do you want me to do? You make it sound like NS4 is becoming increasingly slower paced, when it seems to me to be the exact obvious... its now easier than ever to get to level 40...everyone and their dog has a level 40 character. There's now also more gear, and with artifacts now appearing there's the chance that even a common item could be special.

If we give you more XP per kill, that will greatly inflate and cheapen level 40s... leveling is much less monotonous than it used to be (sniping zons till you get to 40 is job for someone with no job). I made Celestia, Abyss, and DWP with the idea that the bosses would have incredible gear that should be rare even after the areas have been around for a long time... that is, they should be somewhat farm-proof.

If you guys get bored leveling in earth/dwarf/etc, go somewhere else... even if the XP is lower at least you'll be having more fun. NS4 is meant to be fun, not a chore.

[Daltian]

I like the balance, and only thing that could be changed is to make some zones that are avoided bit more xp friendly. Water plane, air plane and forest home give considerably less xp/hour then the zones of similar difficulty. It isn't a big deal, I end up lvling there often just to change pace, but it would be nice if xp was a bit better. End game zones like DWP, posi, neg, DE, celestia and abyss give good xp for their lvl and are manageable in good party so I don't find any problems there.

[Rainswept]

I made Celestia, Abyss, and DWP with the idea that the bosses would have incredible gear that should be rare even after the areas have been around for a long time... that is, they should be somewhat farm-proof.

If you guys get bored leveling in earth/dwarf/etc, go somewhere else... even if the XP is lower at least you'll be having more fun. NS4 is meant to be fun, not a chore.

Thanks for the attention given the post, Pup. Let me reiterate that the 3 levels you mentioned and DE are by far my favorite places to adventure, especially DWP and DE, which are huge and chock-full of bosses. I don't know anyone who has complaints about the gear, it's all interesting and fun, and definitely not common. Those places are exactly what anyone would hope for when adventuring. Great job!

I like the balance, and only thing that could be changed is to make some zones that are avoided bit more xp friendly. Water plane, air plane and forest home give considerably less xp/hour then the zones of similar difficulty. It isn't a big deal, I end up lvling there often just to change pace, but it would be nice if xp was a bit better. End game zones like DWP, posi, neg, DE, celestia and abyss give good xp for their lvl and are manageable in good party so I don't find any problems there.

Daltian: I agree completely with your post, and would like to point out that those areas (and HoD) each also have very good gear drops, while Forest/Air/Water/Shadow are all very rarely used. Most of the time if those areas do get visited, it's nothing more than a strike team to kill the bosses. The sad part is that those areas can be fun, but you just can't talk anyone into going.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

ya. i think the original point that rain was making is a valid one but not meant as a complaint. he's sayin, some places are getting ingored or treated as "change of pace" places. like water plane. water plane is an area where parties get smoked even if you are careful yet the xp is only equal to fire plane which is pretty safe. tweaking in that nature would help.

skara for example is "the" place to go from 25-30. its terrific. great bosses, mobs, xp, drops, good spawns. it makes it hard to justify going to water plane for the same xp. just a thought. and i personally liked the attention that this thread got concerning new players and hospitality.

another option might be to have the staff designate a small committee of players discuss it amongst themselves and prepare a list of recommendations on some of the mobs which need a slight cr adjustment.

and yes, thanks for the attention to the post linux.

laters,

- Glow -

[LethalRoseDose]

Leveling is crazy easy compared to how it used to be. At one point we had to kill rats to get lvl 40 because there was no lvl 25+ content. I was lucky to get a level a day killing rats for 6xp and I was a sorc, no idea how the melee toons did it.

The server now seems to be about big parties and gear collection.

years ago before there were commandments, before relics, before any 20+ content and everyone on your list was set to dislike if you even saw another person most of the time you were dead before you could do anything. being hunted wasn't uncommon and everyone "revenge logged" as it is called now, still think that is a silly rule. Everyone was seen as competition for XP. Leveling on MT was ridiculously stupid as it was always camped by okies or someone else who wanted to PK anyone stupid enough to go there or you would be killed the moment another group saw you. And you never knew who was online because the server was clustered. avendell and dark forest were on different servers. And then the server your toon was located on went down so you couldnt even play. I liked the cluster system though as if someone was on my player list i had a good idea where they were.

Don't get a me wrong i still like NS4 otherwise i still wouldn't be here

I couldn't imagine NS4 as it is now back then. 40+ players and +8 weapons? wow.

[Rufio]

Awww... thanks glow, I feel the love

I guess I have mixed feelings on this topic. I think I have been playing for over a year now, and only have 2 40s, taski and sebastian, though I scrapped my first two toons at level 37 and 39. I feel like I haven't gained a level on my 36 and 11 that I am currently actively leveling in weeks. This is certainly due to real life time commitments, but man, it can take forever to level (and my 36 is ecl 0!), but at the same time I realize there are others with more time than I have and can level much faster, and I don't want 40s just springing out of ground around me.

As far as gear goes, the resourceful newbie can get some pretty nice gear. I have never beaten the endgame bosses of posi, dwp, DE, celestia, abyss, illithids, or HoD and only killed the black lord twice, yet I have 2 black swords, 1 holy avenger, 1 white robe, 1 black robe, and 1 death's mantle, along with other assorted abyss/clestia gear and a whole slew of +7 weapons. Most of it came from resourceful trading (though some came from winning DM events). Only recently have I been able to stock mules with decent gear. In the past, if I ever got anything of value, I would instantly trade it for something my build needed, even if it was of lesser value. A lot of the veterans at the time thought I was a little silly sometimes, but my first few toons had some pretty stellar gear by the time I retired them, and what good is a muled item if it isn't being used?

On one hand, I think that Atheria is manageable with a well thought out build and a little willingness to be friendly, but on the other hand I do sympathize with the idea that the server can be a bit hard in PvM, but not from the standpoint that I always get wiped trying to reach the endgame bosses. It takes a really long time and some organization to defeat those bosses, and the problem for me is that it is rare that I can sit at my computer long enough to make it all the way through some of those dungeons without just running through some of the maps. In fact, about 2 months ago I fought G1 for the first time, and the only way that was possible is that the group I was in just ran through all the mobs and killed the bosses, granted we got absolutely decimated by G1 and had almost no loot aside from kultach's gear.

Honestly, this is never something I have worried too much about, I really just love logging a toon for a few hours and raiding or defending relics or doing whatever else there is to do, not necessarily going on big long planar runs, though I have been trying to get more in lately.

[SkotG]

Hmm I have never been to the Abyss and been to Celestia maybe 3 times and all 3 times it ended quickly and badly. I have 4 lvl 39's that have yet to be finished so......it is a tough world out there, but new players aren't the only ones slogging along

....and I still love the place!!!!

It's the cheery disposition of its inhabitants that make me stay

[Alkapwn]

*grumbles*

[frogofpeace]

*hugs alka*

[Thorac27]

This server is awesome PvM the XP is great in all areas if that's what you like but for me is about the adventure, like the Abyss/Celestia now those areas and hell fun with 3-4 lvl 40's just need the right mix and experience wont give to much away there and really this can be said for any area on the server bar inside the gates of DWP that's just nasty but the rewards are well worth the effort.

The variety of new areas and gear have made this the best NWN server out there for sure, well that's my opinion.

And i think new players if they really want to experience a great well built mod will hang around, muck up a few builds die alot and so on but i see everyday people of this great community helping new players with maybe gear advice or coin.

Please change nothing about the PvM in this great world, *looks to another thread* just some attention elsewhere

[trickovthlyte]

Neversummer 4 has always been focused on team play, not soloing (although you can if you want and good enough).

The key sentence in this thread, if you ask me.

It's a little too late to bring this up, it just won't get implemented. Nevertheless, I submit that NS4 should've had Avendale as the starting city for all new players. If you want to 'focus on team play'.

Consider the new player who just happens to start out in MA and realizes his gear, that his initial 500 gps bought, isn't up to the task, and the xp isn't so hot. So he shouts out that he is (below lvl 5) lfp. What are his chances of finding a party? I've seen it happen alot. You know this guy won't get a group, or if he does they'll be in some city he has no chance of getting to without an escort, or divine intervention. In the above scenario MA was used, but the story gets repeated in almost every starting city. I know the veteran players don't see that as a problem, they are guild members, or have friends, or dual log, and can get cash, buffs/PL'd, groups, easy.

A real player will have an eye and see right away that the server has superior scripting, he'll stick it out to see what the attraction is. Others will give up.

If Avendale were the starting city for all players there would alot more low lvl groups, alot faster lvling at low lvls, alot more evenly matched low lvl pking!

The stores in Avendale should sell lvl 1-9 gear. Avendale should be restricted to players lvl 12 and below. The lvl 13 stores should be in the faction cities of their choice.

My point is: The lvl 1-12 areas should be restricted to something like underneath Avendale. Then once they leave Avendale at 13 they can't come back with that player. They are forced to find their way to their faction city to get their next upgrade. This would enable the entire surface area of Aetheria to be inhabited with alot more higher CR monsters.

There's just way too many Bugs, and Rats, and Goblins, that don't give much xp, running around. Monsters like Orcs, and Bugbears, and Hobgoblins, should be higher CR.

If you're like me you don't really 'take off' and start to lvl fast until you hit lvl 16. After lvl 16 I don't have a problem. Once I hit lvl 30 the server really opens up to me.

I don't understand anyone complaining about all the great areas for players lvl 30 and above. I shoot from 16 to 36 quick. From 36 on it gets a little slow, but I don't mind. It's the grind from 1-16 that I'd like to whine about here.

Also the Thunderdome doesn't get enough use. The lvl 20 requirement should be lifted. With Avendale as the starting city the lowbies would certainly want to make use of it alot more than any other lvl range of players.

Finally I think the drop rate of (Unique) items should be greatly increased for a short period of time in order to populate the server with alot more interesting gear. A few more persistant containers in various areas for players to find and things would be real sweet!

[frogofpeace]

It's a little too late to bring this up, it just won't get implemented. Nevertheless, I submit that NS4 should've had Avendale as the starting city for all new players. If you want to 'focus on team play'.

Actually, being a central start point was kind of the advantage and, I suppose, downfall of NS City and the Last Alliance. I reckon 75%+ of new players started there, and there were more players running around, so it wasn't hard to find a low level party there. I don't think I've ever found a random party of new toons around Daeron, in the something like 3 years I've been playing predominantly out of there. Not sure about the other factions, but I guess it's similar. I think the server population is just too small for people (not even considering new people) to be starting toons in any given faction at any given time.

The jobs do help that L1-5+ levelling phase, until you can realistically make the run to someplace with more partiers. (AO doesn't need jobs - the guards kill the noobs before they can even get started. My one and only toon in AO didn't make it ten strides out of the start area before one of the guard's breath weapons got him - I bout busted a gut.)

It sounds like LA as we know it is truly dead, but I don't know if I would have stayed playing if I hadn't had that as a start point (not being a 'real player' who would recognize superior scripting if it jumped up and levelled my toon for me; I know I like this server a lot .)

[Rufio]

leveling to about level 6 or 7 is my least favorite part of the server. Hours of goblin killing by yourself sucks after a while. The problem for players playing their first toon here is that they don't know where ave is, and don't usually make it there until about level 10 or so, though newer players do have jobs to distract them, unless they decide to go AO.