Blindness changes

[Bishop99]

I have to say that this is probably one of the worst changes possible as far as pvp-balance goes.

I don't really feel like explaining why, but WOF is the reason why any faction is capable of having a team capable of killing any build.

If you ever watch what goes on in pvp... I think you would notice that WOF and IGMS are the only reasons why certain builds get killed.

The main reason why pure clerics were useful was because they have the best SR for blocking WOF, and they also have the best spell penetration for getting thier WOF to hit.
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With the old WOF- it didn't matter how OP your build was, it could be taken down like any other build with a combination of curse song, WOF, and taunt.

This was the reason why pure clerics and pure bards which are available in every faction, and also happen to be the best backbone to any pvp group. Now there is no point to play a pure cleric... WOF is useless, Harms are just IGMS that don't always hit, UEF and AVA are already auto-stripped and can be casted with UMD anyways, and pure cleric SR is pointless because the only spell you really need to resist is WOF/IGMS (and if its igms they've got mords on you anyways so it will probably get through anyways), and spells that have DC's are mostly pointless because you can get just about every build to have 45+ in every save.

WOF is the balancer to every dex based build... which is what every good pvp build is- be it sorcerer, cleric, bard, w/e...

Besides there are already tons of ways to get around blindness.


This is a really really bad change.

[frogofpeace]

WoF was bad news for most of my characters before this change, but not really an 'I win' for the opponent, usually. Maybe a little unbalanced, as you could still run around and fight so you weren't really 'flatfooted', and a save would have been nice. Now it seems it will be kind of like the current Timestop, a way for the caster to run away, and maybe confuse the opposition in melee. I guess we see where you're going with all this.

[diddy33]

Maybe a little unbalanced, as you could still run around and fight so you weren't really 'flatfooted', and a save would have been nice..

i thought i read somewhere, that when blinded, even if you were fighting, you were stilll flatfooted. it was a nwn type bug, not a rules thing.

i know that on my toons that had uncanny dodge, i was standing toe to toe with a mob, and got WOF'd and all the sudden seemed like every swing hit me.

[frogofpeace]

Sorry, my post wasn't clear. As I understood it the spell made you flatfooted as far as the game was concerned, like diddy says, but because you could still run around and fight, that doesn't seem quite right.

[MLoki]

If you are running around blind you are still considered Flat Footed. This only effects characters that are fighting while blinded. ie (Blind Fighting Feat) If they can't find you or someone else to hit then they still have no dodge AC since they are considered Flat Footed.

[diddy33]

not quite sure how the blindfight feat goes with uncanny dodge. from what i understand blindfight just gives you a reroll if the target is concealed, which they would be if you were blinded, but doesn't really have much to do with you being flatfooted.

being blinded itself has something with you to being flatfooted though, and that's where uncanny dodge is supposed to pick up, but never did. even if you were in combat mode.

[weasel423]

whats really funny is that for years there have been complaints about how broken blindness is and how it needs to be reworked....when you do it all of a sudden we hate NC.


sometimes i wish you guys would make up your minds

Speaking of blindness... last night my Drow was blinded by fire just before going through a transition. After a couple seconds of coming through the transition, the blindness wore off but the entire screen was black! I had to re-log to fix it (and I am sure that the PWnD guy that was running after me thought I was combat logging). Just FYI on a bug!

[diddy33]

whats really funny is that for years there have been complaints about how broken blindness is and how it needs to be reworked....when you do it all of a sudden we hate NC.


sometimes i wish you guys would make up your minds

Speaking of blindness... last night my Drow was blinded by fire just before going through a transition. After a couple seconds of coming through the transition, the blindness wore off but the entire screen was black! I had to re-log to fix it (and I am sure that the PWnD guy that was running after me thought I was combat logging). Just FYI on a bug!

sure. . .blame it on some mysterious bug, lol j/k

[frogofpeace]

not quite sure how the blindfight feat goes with uncanny dodge. from what i understand blindfight just gives you a reroll if the target is concealed, which they would be if you were blinded, but doesn't really have much to do with you being flatfooted.

being blinded itself has something with you to being flatfooted though, and that's where uncanny dodge is supposed to pick up, but never did. even if you were in combat mode.

Yeah, it sounds like Blind Fight now does what UD is supposed to do but doesn't. I like it like that , because it was YET ANOTHER example of how NC got the shaft (even though UD doesn't work) Cos the devs hate NC

[Korr]

Pure clerics and bards still have their VERY effective usefullness. . . unless you dont like to silence those IGMS spammers.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Pure clerics and bards still have their VERY effective usefullness. . . unless you dont like to silence those IGMS spammers.

good luck keeping them in your silence aura without FoM and falling over from grease, oh and encumbered by NEB lol, how'd I forget that part. Pure caster kills a pure cleric every day of the week and twice on Tuesday, if said caster knows what he's doing. Every defensive spell that a pure cleric uses, barring SR, is autoremoved by mord.
The only way a pure cleric can win that fight is if the mage is an idiot and doesn't know how to build.

[Bishop99]

Pure clerics and bards still have their VERY effective usefullness. . . unless you dont like to silence those IGMS spammers.

1. It's called spell mantle.

2. Silence with a bard is pretty dumb. Do you really want to trade a silence aura for curse song and all your bonus sonic damage?

3. Plus... every igms spamming sorcerer should have silent spell feat. That is pretty basic.

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Blind fight used to be purely offensive, now it is giving you 'uncanny dodge in blindness'
Uncanny dodge btw does not give you your tumble ac or ac from dodge bonuses when you are flat footed- it only gives you your dex mod. Even when blind though, you won't be flat footed so as long as you aren't standing there doing nothing- you will have all of your ac.

I just want to see WOF maintain the function it served in pvp- which was to make the unhittable hittable and give concealment (through blindness). This was a huge element to pvp to level the playing field regardless of what faction you are in. There are already tons of ways to remove and prevent blindness which each give the pvp field even more dynamics.

WOF is how you take down every imbalanced build on this server.

My suggestion may sound rediculous... but the new WOF needs to drop ac by at least 20 to maintain what it did pre-blindness change.

If you think about what it was doing before: 15-18 from dex mod (on a dexer), 1-2 haste/blindingspeed, 4-8 tumble, 5-7 from boots, 6 from bardsong. It will need to have a serious punch to even be remotely close to the old WOF.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

15-18 from dex mod (on a dexer), 1-2 haste/blindingspeed, 4-8 tumble, 5-7 from boots, 6 from bardsong

nothing else is that powerful (certainly no area of effect spell) that didn't at least have a save. this is why WoF was overpowered. i don't necessarily agree with the change but you have to admit that is pretty darn powerful. on top of that you do realize that blindness is also a -4 to discipline.

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[LinuxPup]

Blind fight used to be purely offensive, now it is giving you 'uncanny dodge in blindness'

Wrong. Read the description for Blind Fight...

And ya... anything that drops 40 AC with no save is pretty silly overpowered... but not to worry! I'm working on making WoF a very worthwhile spell still. Feel free to give ideas... I've heard enough "this sucks" and get the picture... I'm not leaving things in their current state.

[mgrjebbo]

I think the answer might be in changing the fundamental building styles of NS4. The dex based building plan is easy and imo without common sense. IF you change the way dex based toons survive and function in the realm of ns4 then you could do whatever you want to WOF and noone would care.

Its dex based toons that are broken.