More shifter saving throw merging issues

[Rufio]

Ok, now that the issue will/reflex save boosts on items swapping when merging has been fixed (thanks devs!), I have another, similar issue.

It seems that when I shift, my items that have universal saving throw boosts do not merge with my shifted form.

my current shifter was wearing 2 xag-ya rings, and I was noticing that all my saves were 2 lower in kobold form than unshifted, so I played around with the rings and noticed that no matter if I was wearing 0,1, or 2 rings that my saving throws would remain exactly the same in shifted from, so it seems the bonuses are not transfering.

sorry for giving you all some boring things to look at

[Rufio]

*cough* bump *cough*

Maybe this isn't a big deal for others, but my current shifter was built with gear in mind, and between my white robe, xag-ya rings, merfolk high celestial helm, and sphinx hide cloak, I am down 6 in all of my saving throws, which is a huge problem.

[cRaZy8or5e]

That would be annoying.

[LinuxPup]

Lokey, did we do any changes to this lately?

[Lokey]

What's the limit on save bonuses? 10 or 20?

Anyway possible there's another save column out of whack...

[Cluster]

Save cap is +20 from gear/buffs.

One way to know if your hitting the cap is to take off some item with say only +will, see your stats shifted and unshifted, then put the universal save gear on, or get an AVA buff and see if the will goes up.

Another thing i can think of, is to not trust the char sheet, as it doesn't always put the proper numbers up. Have someone sling a couple of savable spells and see what the log says, as thats all you can really trust as far as numbers go.

[Rufio]

Ok, without revealing my stats too much, wearing no rings and no other items with universal saves, I have a 30 will save shifted and unshifted. With 2 xag-ya rings, i have a 32 will unshifted, but still only a 30 will when shifted. With 2 rings of malar that give a +1 to will instead of a +1 universal save, I have a 32 will unshifted and shifted.

This means that i am not hitting the save cap, it must be an issue with the universal save. I'll test the character sheet theory when I have some more time, maybe later tonight.

[Lokey]

Or an issue of universal save being capped differently. Any other items with universal save and will you try wearing only those rings?

[Rufio]

Oh, some interesting results.

First of all, I tested the saves on the char sheet vs the combat log. I found the char sheet to be correct as far as saves go, meaning that I am not getting the saving throw bonuses from the rings even in the combat log.

Now the interesting part, I unequiped all my items with saving throws and just wore the rings, and when I did that, I would get the same saves shifted as I did unshifted, meaning the universal saves on the rings were transfering!

I then added my items back one at a time, and i found that when I added an item, say with a will save boost, the save from the ring that applies to will didn't transfer, but the saves on fort and reflex did. At first I thought that they just weren't stacking, but I added an item with a boost of 1 on will and kept the rings on, and when i did that, I only got a boost of 1 on my will, not a boost of 2 that I should have gotten if the rings just weren't stacking.

It seems to me that the specific will, fort, and reflex boosts are overriding the universal save boosts.

[Lokey]

I'll need to check an item (well, the specific numbers the engine puts into the effects struct), but it's possible the universal are from the save v element 2da. It's also possible that applying them together as one effect is the problem.

I'll get around to fiddling one of these days.

[Korr]

It could also be possible that the bonus from your other gear is high enough that you are hitting the +20 cap. Bonuses to saving throw vs spells from spellcraft apply to this cap, so if you are testing this against spells (like when checking combat log) you could just be hitting the cap. Keep in mind that spellcraft (unlike tumble) uses total skill, not base ranks, to calculate your saving throw. So if you have 100 spellcraft save items would help vs spells as you are already getting +20 to saves from that.

[Rufio]

I've already discussed the +20 cap, that is not an issue, first, i was testing against a fear effect, second, adding more of a specific save in place of the universal save was still increasing the save, and third, including my 40 spellcraft and the gear I was using to test everything, i shouldn't have had more than a +14 bonus to any save vs spells, or a +7 bonus against fear.

[Korr]

since spellcraft isnt a flat-line + to saves, and only + to saves vs spells. . . its not listed on your character sheet. So if you are testing these things with spells you could be possibly hitting a cap and not know it.

[rocketkai]

Just curious whether this issue has been solved, since I met the same thing with my current shifter build? It looks the universal saving boost from gears still doesn't work in the shifted forms. BTW, I also found that kobold shape (small size) doesn't receive the 1.5*str damage bonus when using the scythe. Just wondering whether it is an overlook from the devs or it is intended to be like this? I would appreciate it a lot if the staffs can take a further look into this issue.

[Rufio]

Yeah. This has not been resolved. Specific save boosts still override universal saves in their respective save type. Essentially you either need to use only items with specific saves, or only items with universal saves.

I had to do a lot of work with Sebastian to get items that only have universal saves that would still work with the build. I think now I have a +6 boost to universal saves in my normal gear. I can possibly get +8 with sacrifices in some areas to swap out gear, but that is the absolute maximum. This restriction is really a pain. For example, I really want to equip an Amazon Imbued Helm, but the +2 will boost overrides the +6 universal save boost I have with my other equipment, dropping my will boost to +2.