Linux, my dragon sux now, fix it!

[Rogue2x]

Can I also point out that the 30rdds are running around without the jobs that the other factions have? What would you guys be saying if I had a Divine-dmg-dealing shield up on the dragon? extra discipline? how about some free stat-points, or more elemental dmg on the melee? How about True-Seeing from a token for non-casters?

Every single toon from other factions are coming to fight the dragon with unfair advantages like those above. No one hears us yelling and screaming about fighting an uphill battle against every single toon you bring to raid AO. You have unfair advantages over us, discipline that I can't match, dmg on your weapons that I can't get, shields that deal dmg that I can't prevent or put up myself.

How dare you all sit and play against us with your advantages and complain about a strong build that's available only to AO. And especially how dare every one of you with a toon with an AC over 70 that's EVER gotten a bardsong to lift your AC to 80 complain about the dragon's AC.

The dragon's AC is not even as high as what some of you posters have on your toons; haven't any of you gotten a bardsong before? Think about this for a second, the ab/ac on the dragon is NOT exclusive; you can get those stats many different way, literally 100s of different ways. And as I pointed about above, all of you have toons with those stats. The dragon is not invincible by any stretch, and to pretend otherwise isn't right for the server.

[Shhhhhhh]

I don't think its 1 stat thats the problem, but more the combination of AC, AB, dam reduction Health, High damage,breath attack , some immunity's and fear.
And most comments were just a responce to people claiming the dragon is worthless now. I think some others still saw it as quite strong and thought the worthless stuff was over the top. Truth is propably in the middle and Linux balanced it perfectly

[Tsavong]

Can I also point out that the 30rdds are running around without the jobs that the other factions have? What would you guys be saying if I had a Divine-dmg-dealing shield up on the dragon? extra discipline? how about some free stat-points, or more elemental dmg on the melee? How about True-Seeing from a token for non-casters?

Not alot, i would cast mord to get rid of that

[Cahaal]

Can I also point out that the 30rdds are running around without the jobs that the other factions have? What would you guys be saying if I had a Divine-dmg-dealing shield up on the dragon? extra discipline? how about some free stat-points, or more elemental dmg on the melee? How about True-Seeing from a token for non-casters?

Not alot, i would cast mord to get rid of that

You can't mord the token abilities or the discipline or the stat points or the extra melee damage, .......

[rocketkai]

When you are shifted, you lost most of the bonus from jobs (e.g., skill boosts and stat bonus), but you may keep the buff effects, like the damage-dealing shield and element damage only if you have weapons in the shifting shape. The same things happen for the subrace bonus, you only keep the stat boost and buff effects (e.g., AC/DR boost from earth genasi), but lost most of others (e.g., skills, feats, immunity, resists). The reason behind is due to the different skins in the normal shape and shifting shape.

[Nyeleni]

Can I also point out that the 30rdds are running around without the jobs that the other factions have? What would you guys be saying if I had a Divine-dmg-dealing shield up on the dragon? extra discipline? how about some free stat-points, or more elemental dmg on the melee? How about True-Seeing from a token for non-casters?

Not alot, i would cast mord to get rid of that

You can't mord the token abilities or the discipline or the stat points or the extra melee damage, .......

He means the true seeing part.

[Tsavong]

I'm confident that many job items that provide something on the user (like a damage shield) can be morded away, like the MA ones, so they dont add alot when casters are around. the +1 to some stats (cha and int) are nice and help to getting the +12 from items and spells but you can hit that with out them just easer with the +1 if its to the stat you want.

I don't think its lack of jobs that would be holding PWnD and AO back, and your allies jobs more than make up for your lack just keep a dwarf around to kd people or lower there ab by 8 or what ever it dose.

[cRaZy8or5e]

You can't mord the true seeing part of the NC token away, nor dispel it. Well not unless you're an Aoa. I've always wondered if greater spell breach might be able to, that's what the spell looks like that aoa's cast anyhow. However, I believe there is an active jobs thread. To be honest I didn't know there was enough of that horse left to resurrect here.

*swings stick at AO job horse* *whiff*

Yeah I thought so, AO jobs are just a trick of the light. See it's just dust motes that created a mirage of "AO jobs coming soon."

I'm not trying to make light of your feelings of injustice about the AO jobs, just the situation in general.

On that note, did the loss of some dexterity completely destroy the playability of these dragons?

[Rogue2x]

Yes, the loss of the Dexterity destroyed the playability of my dragon, and I'll explain why.

Your abilities are so important to a build because each ability is added to so many different aspects of your toon when you're trying to do anything. A 30rdd has only 10 non-rdd lvls to play around with. That's not a lot to do anything with, so the toon isn't going to be a caster, or a hipser, or a sneaker, or anything like that; he's a melee tank, nothing more. He stands there and swings with his claws, and hopes it deals enough dmg to kill the people around him before they do enough dmg to kill him.

So, the dragon has 2 things to worry about, his ab and his ac. Before the nerf, My dragon is a 9mnk/1sorc/30rdd, and on his own has +53ab/74ac. I fail to see how those are unreasonable. A non-dragon melee tank would get laughed at for a +53ab; and a 74AC? Are all of you, with your Mnk/CoT, and PM, and Sorc ACs really saying that 74AC is too high?

Any melee toon with an AB over +54 is hitting me fairly consistently, and as I said before, +53 isn't exactly blowing down little piggies' houses.

Now though, after the nerf, my ab is still +53, but now my AC is 65 because of the dex penatly I have to take when I shift. So now, that same +54ab that was hitting me 20% of the time (1 in every 5 attacks) is now hitting me 60% of the time, that's 3 times more often, and more than half of their attacks. What's the AB of a MEDIOCRE melee toon? +60? that'll MISS me only once a round now.

But even just assuming someone's attacking my dragon with JUST a +54, I don't see how unreasonable getting hit 20% of the time is, that averages out to one hit every single round over the course of a fight, but now I'm getting hit with more than half of the attacks coming at me. Add in that the attacks coming my way are laden with stunning fists, cippling strikes, knockdowns, etc, and my AC can't give me any protection anymore. AC has now lost it's purpose on the rdd build, it can't prevent me getting hit, and can't help avoid some of the special attacks coming at me. AC is the first layer of protection on a toon, and on an RDD, a class (and in a faction for that matter) that doesn't get much in the way of extras, one of the only.

As a special bonus, a crippling drop in dexterity also has nice effect of giving the 30rdd Dragon a Looney-Toons-esque banana-peel-slipping Reflex Save. After the nerf, my Dragon has a reflex save of +19.......you read that correctly, +19. Some of you have already figured this out and have started throwing grease everywhere, which is a nice death sentence for the dragon.

So is the Dragon unplayable now? You tell me; what am I to do with a supposed melee tank with 53ab/65ac, and a +19 reflex save, with no ability to buff myself. You'd laugh at me if I told you I was planning on rolling up a pure melee tank with those stats and no other abilities (hips, magic, etc).

My solution: Use it as a mule.

[Cahaal]

Not alot, i would cast mord to get rid of that [/quote]

You can't mord the token abilities or the discipline or the stat points or the extra melee damage, .......[/quote]

He means the true seeing part.[/quote]

Bring your token to my Sorc and we will check. Last time we tried it, the True Seeing stayed with all forms of dispelling including G. Spell breach.

[cRaZy8or5e]

So you went from 74 AC to 65 AC, a cumulative dex loss of 18 dex (9 dex mod AC)? Your AB is higher than 53 though, even still. You're char sheet AB is not your actual AB.

I never thought the RDD's were overpowered to begin with. In fact in other threads I've stated that I thought that anyone who gutted out the leveling process deserved a juggernaut. Be that as it may, maybe try wearing some reflex gear (crafted boots) and some spellcraft gear. You've got a ton of strength so you could probably cut out a discipline helm and go with a spellcraft helm as well. Just some tips.

On the bright, uhh slightly glowing, well it might be a dim grey hazy side from your prespective, you've still got a ton of hp, great AB, and decent damage reduction.

Your Solution: not very creative, maybe it could be a dancing dragon in a traveling circus.

Based off of what you've listed out on your build. If that +7 to AB is not listed on char sheet, that would put you at a standing 60 AB, +3 AVA, +6 pure bard song, so 69 AB, and 64 AC w+6 pure bard song = 70 AC, can he get buffed by a dex buff? 72 AC? I don't know what boots you're wearing maybe go with the 3 dodge 8 AC crafted boots. They have +6 to reflex saves, and with a pure bard around you're looking at 31 reflex saves before spellcraft. I don't know does that make sense at all? A trilloch remains and xag ya cloak give you +20 to spellcraft, though I can't remember if those are applied in checks against grease or earthquakes. Jus trying to come up with some options.

I still find it wild that you took an 18 dex hit though, I thought linux said it was only 5, or was it 10 dex, 5 AC?

Even still that's a lot less than 18.

[Rogue2x]

I'm not sure what +7 you're talking about. Unfortunately I know about all the char-sheet discrepancies, so I am using the combat log for the ab, and it's a +54 with my Blinding Speed.

Also, we're in the game right now testing, and it seems that Spellcraft isn't added to the reflex save against Grease. The best we can get our Reflex save is +25 with a mage and bard doing the buffing, no buffs from the dragon toon. Against Primarch's Grease DC of 34, the dragon needs to roll 9 or higher to save, he'll fail the save half the time.

Grease is a lvl 1 spell, so when it's a higher lvl spell the dragon needs to save against, he doesn't have a chance.

And it needs to be mentioned again, Grease is a lvl 1 spell......my lvl 40 Dragon toon shouldn't be failing a lvl 1 spell half the time.

Since Grease is an area spell, you're going to have to spend at least 1 round in it to get away, so you're going to have to make 2 saves; if the dragon fails the save half the time, 1 out of every 2 saves, statistically EVERY time the dragon steps onto a puddle of grease, he'll fall.

[MLoki]

It's not JUST the 74 AC. I have many toons with a 74 AC or higher but they either don't do as much damage, don't have as many HP, don't have as high of an AB or don't have as much DR. The fact that the dragons have all of these I believe was the problem.

[mgrjebbo]

Lol, if I thought any of the above numbers were actualy correct there might be an argument here.

Put rogue into the RDD build and get yourself some reflex save. Problem solved. Oh and a mediocer melee build does not have a 60 ab lol. More like a 50ish. Trust me, I used to make mediocer toons all the time.

65Ac without/without buffs isnt bad. Specialy on a DR build. Considering you can easily whip it into improved expertise and make that a 75ac, yeah you have to put it into the build..., and use breath weapon to smoke em.

Nerf everything! Elementals next please.

[Amoenotep]

some things you need to note:

the NC token true seeing is just like the spell..see invis +spot skill...so..not that uber awesome.

RDD's, once you shift that dragon becomes your new char....regardless of whatever stats you want to pour into your 40 lvls of char...your STR, DEX, CON stats are auto set when you shift. this also sets your saves.

put rogue into rdd for reflex..doesn't matter, it gets replaced. it happens for any shape any char shifts to. main stats get auto replaced...

RDD dragons got a nerf in the bigger departments because they have so many smaller departments that work for them better. deal with it for now...we probably aren't done with most of it.