Items in the Economy

[MLoki]

Many good points made in this thread and we'll consider them (and others that keep coming).

I don't claim that we'll ever be able to have a perfectly balanced economy - no more than I think we'll ever have perfectly balanced classes. But, just because that's the case doesn't mean you don't take some reasonable approaches to not let things get totally out of whack.

Whatever rules we come up with will ultimately be in place to enhance fun and gameplay, not just be for the sake of rules. But, games are fun because rules are in place. I would be disappointed if you guys didn't hate anything that smelled like a nerf...

If you want a simplified sink/drain system then you could just implement a gold sink based on items in inventory. The more powerfull the items on a character the more that person has to spend after they log in. If they don't have enough gold then they either need to earn it before logging off or risk losing one of the items stockpiled on that character. This would cut down on muling if not get rid of it completely and create a gold sink that would encourage players to sell more items. This is basically the same thing as having item decay and a repair system that costs X gold since you have to spend money to keep your items repaired. You could keep this cost to a one time charge per reset to avoid serious problems due to crashing etc.

[Charles I]

I vote no. My base feeling on this is that once an item is earned it should not be taken away. Of course since we metagame here the character that ends up using an item may not be the one that earned it. Yet this is also true of crafted items. The crafting system was put in place to fill a gap in the economy, it was the intent that crafted items would be sold to other characters. So how do we restrict the items available on the market (ie create a supply sided economic system) yet allow characters to trade with one another. The idea of item decay or wear and tear works well for mundane (non-magical items). Something to remember, that just because an item is +1 or +2, etc. does not mean that it is magical, it may just be fine craftsmanship. So after so many battles, hits, damage from spells, whatever, a mundane item will wear out. Determining a reasonable lifespan or measure of wear, well that's a dev problem . Now what do we do about magical items. If I go and fight Lord Grezor 100 times probabilities dictate I will end up with a number of Staffs of the Mountain. So how do you stop me from collecting a number of any item that I have gone out and earned. By not giving the item directly. Instead of having items drop from bosses or certain monsters have the character receive a token for defeating it (party or solo). Only one token could be earned per character from a specific boss. So no matter how many times I killed Grezor I would not get an additional token after the first time, yet I could assist another character. The token would also be assigned an item level. Characters would have to trade in the tokens earned at a specific merchant for an appropriate level item. Some items could cost more than one token. You want that Armor of the Spider Queen, cough up two level 16 tokens. This could force characters to explore more instead of going to the same places over and over and over and over... you get the point, to get additional tokens. The token can be a visible items in the inventory, non-droppable, so a character can see how many of what level they have. By making it visible it takes up inventory space reducing how much a character can carry, but weight should be minimal (eg. .1). The item the token is traded for would be non-droppable so it could only be used by the character that earned it. There would also be the need for item destruction with this as a character rose to higher levels they would gain a more powerful item (ditch the Spider Queen Armor for some Drinking Plate) and need to reduce inventory thus removing the item from the market or maybe sell it back to the item merchant for some gp (but not get tokens returned). Items obtained in this manner should not wear out. Is this a scripting nightmare, probably.

[Zierham]

To a certain extent, Charles' suggestions would defeat any sense of an "economy" (after all, if the majority of desirable items are handled this way, there's nothing to buy/sell/trade...)

On the other hand, it would restrict muling/twinking pretty effectively. Do you nuke the house to kill a rat? Or is the twinking/muling problem so bad that its not a rat but rather something much, much worse? If the Dev's think so, then by all means, go defcon.

If the devs do implement a token system, even though it would castrate the economy, i'd argue the bosses should either be the target of a level restricted quest (kill the boss, turn in the quest, get his special drops) or the tokens themselves should be no-drop, and correspond to an item, which is also no-drop -- you can get as many as you want, but you cant give the token to anyone, or trade the item away. Although this may muck up the dev's intended implementation of disarm...

[burrahobbit]

No mules "can i get help with an xfer in av?"

Occasional encounter of 'rust monster' like creatures "run, here comes a rust monster"

Occasional encounter of disarming monsters -monsters already do this-

Creatures that pickpocket -does every char on the server need to have spot or listen-

Item degradation (items degrade the more you use them) Not everyone has 15 hours a week to gather and re-gather equipment.

Item decay (items decay when you DON'T use them) This would be easy to exploit.

Chance of item loss on death (perhaps by the creatures that kill you) -Leave your celestia longsword in your pack, why take the risk of a crash-

No items need to be removed from the economy - ever (please justify) If it isnt broke, why fix it........

[Mops]

No items need to be removed from the economy - ever (please justify) If it isnt broke, why fix it.......

Because it is broken.

[burrahobbit]

no it isnt

[Bargeld]

One catch I thought of with the 'token' system... Toss the /roll d20 out the window, cuz the guy that crits for 300+ will get every kill.

[Aarkon Draco]

what about a NPC weaponsmith someone you bring X boss parts items to and they make Y magical item from them. once Z toon has Y magic item made they can not make another for that toon nor can it be traded to another toon. it can be sold to a NPC vendor for gold or back to the weaponsmith for gold or a random slightly lesser item that can be traded or whatever to other toons.

this solves the muleing of the better items and makes players take the toon they want Y item for on the quest to get it. this would however require a bit of scripting and extra toon tags (?) to say what that toon has had made for them and what hasent been made.

this would also taylor certian bosses more tward certian builds using the gregorz example since he is/was a ogre magi the items made from his boss parts would be inclined to caster builds. once the toon has the boss parts he gets a choice of 1 - 3? diffrent things the weaponsmith can make from thembut they would all have similar propertys

IE from gregorz items the toon can have a staff made that has X bonus spell slot Y# charges to cast A B or C spells or they can be made into a longbow with X bonus spell slot and Y# of charges to cast D E or F spells or finaly a ring can be made with X spell bonus slot and Y# of charges to cast G H or I spells where the diffrent spells favor thetype of item made staff would be for more focused casters who dont use it as a weapon (ASoC for ex) the bow would have spells geared tward a more combat oriented caster ( a AA for ex ) and the ring could be a more deffensive style of caster ( for any caster but having spells like elemental shield or spell mantle ect )

rogues or dex based builds would go to the bandit camp ect for their gear ect ect

obviously the bosses should be rather hard for their intended killers and thus the players would need help from other toons to get their gear.

boss items could also be used to enhance more generic items for even more variety and reason for a fighter or whatnot to go on a gregorz run and since you already have a item enhancment theme going ( runes ect mentioned in another thread ) this would fit in with it.

[Retzbu Tox]

In approximately two years of playing on the server, I have never had a level 40 character, never accumulated vast sums of gold, and never accumulated a hoard of 30th level items. I tend to have multiple crafter builds going at the same time, finally joined a guild a few months ago, and have only once had the opportunity to visit the prize room.

Decay, degradation, and other concepts that hit everyone, regardless of whether they contribute to a perceived problem with the economy, does not sound like fun.

I have always thought that voluntary gold/item sinks are preferable to involuntary ones. Put in more things to spend gold/items on that are fun, but of limited usefulness or exploitablility.

Examples of things to voluntarily spend gold/items on:

• An illusionist wizard merchant who can give you a temporary appearance (flames, ice, smoke, etc.) for a moderate sum of gold. (Maybe it could be a token you could activate X number of times.)
• A transmuter wizard merchant who can give you permanent wings, tails, etc. for a large sum of gold.
• A shrine to your deity where you can sacrifice a high level item for some insane boon. (Give Lolth a White robe, causing Daeron to be cast into darkness and infested with random drider spawns until the next server reset.)
• A 'crafter' merchant who sells dyes and can rename your gear for a fee.
• A storage rental facility that can be used to securely transfer items without needing to shout for help. (Particularly useful to non-guild toons needing to transfer crafted items or stackables - potions, arrows, gems, scrolls.)
• A 'consignment' merchant who buys items from characters and resells them at a profit to himself. (Puts the function of the 'Real Trade Thread' from the forum into the game.)

[MLoki]

In approximately two years of playing on the server, I have never had a level 40 character, never accumulated vast sums of gold, and never accumulated a hoard of 30th level items. I tend to have multiple crafter builds going at the same time, finally joined a guild a few months ago, and have only once had the opportunity to visit the prize room.

Decay, degradation, and other concepts that hit everyone, regardless of whether they contribute to a perceived problem with the economy, does not sound like fun.

I have always thought that voluntary gold/item sinks are preferable to involuntary ones. Put in more things to spend gold/items on that are fun, but of limited usefulness or exploitablility.

Examples of things to voluntarily spend gold/items on:

• An illusionist wizard merchant who can give you a temporary appearance (flames, ice, smoke, etc.) for a moderate sum of gold. (Maybe it could be a token you could activate X number of times.)
• A transmuter wizard merchant who can give you permanent wings, tails, etc. for a large sum of gold.
• A shrine to your deity where you can sacrifice a high level item for some insane boon. (Give Lolth a White robe, causing Daeron to be cast into darkness and infested with random drider spawns until the next server reset.)
• A 'crafter' merchant who sells dyes and can rename your gear for a fee.
• A storage rental facility that can be used to securely transfer items without needing to shout for help. (Particularly useful to non-guild toons needing to transfer crafted items or stackables - potions, arrows, gems, scrolls.)
• A 'consignment' merchant who buys items from characters and resells them at a profit to himself. (Puts the function of the 'Real Trade Thread' from the forum into the game.)

This type of thing has been discussed before. Being able to "buy" mercs to help defend or raid other factions etc... The control summons wand was one of those gold sinks but not worth it in the eyes of many. I do like some of your ideas but it would take much more development and with certain jobs not being finished I think the time that devs have to work on NS4 is still limited.

[cely]

I do like some of your ideas but it would take much more development and with certain jobs not being finished I think the time that devs have to work on NS4 is still limited.

This poll is for NS5

[Retzbu Tox]

My reference to cursing Daeron with darkness and driders is not necessarily intended to be useful in a raid. They could appear in some part of Daeron that would not be strategically important and could be hostile to everyone. They could hinder a raider as much as a defender. This is not intended to be something exploitable for giving your character an advantage, but as something to spend resources on in order to annoy your enemy.

If some characters are perceived as having too much stuff, give them more things they will want to spend resources on.

For a large sum of gold, let them buy a house. Come up with several floor plans. Bigger houses cost more. They get a key to some otherwise unused door in their faction city that only works for them. For a bigger fee they get a permanent storage container in their house. A house with a storage container is not of any greater practical value than just using a mule, but its cooler.

You don't think Bolg would want to buy a mansion? He should be able to have a place befitting his status!

[Amoenotep]

RUST MONSTERS!!!!!

a banking system to allow for on death drop of all items in your inventory.

item degradation based on player death. all items would be given durability and a set number of points would be subtracted on death. a few merchants could be contracted to repair items for cost.

disarming mobs...not alot, but enough to know they are there.

[Retzbu Tox]

a banking system to allow for on death drop of all items in your inventory.

I am not sure I grasp what this means...

[Amoenotep]

a banking system so you can "mule"/"stash" all your items in so you don't have to keep them in your inventory.

then add in if you die...your body leaves remains and anything not equipped to your person ie. your inventory, is left in the remains to be stolen