Why I love PvM.

[Rainswept]

I prefer PvM over PvP. It's not that I dislike PvP, it's just that I find that PvM has a lot of advantages that I really appreciate.

When a group gets together to go xp or gear hunt, or just kill monsters, everyone shares a goal, everyone wants to be part of it, and everyone gets something out of it. In short, everyone wins, nobody gets mad, and if they don't accomplish the goal for the evening, little if anything is lost and more fun is there to be had tomorrow.

More and more I run into just negative feelings revolving around or stemming from PvP. This week alone I've had people tell me how unhappy they were about their weapons being taken from them by other players, I've had parties disrupted and people log off because they wouldn't party with other players over PvP issues, I've seen people refuse to help each other because they might later fight in PvP, and I personally just logged off from an event I was having a really good time at, because people took it upon themselves to change it into PvP.

I love figuring out how to fight crazy-tough monsters that would destroy any one toon. I love prganizing parties and planning strategy in tough areas. I love looking at pickup parties and figuring out how to meld various random jobs into a group, and I love melding planned jobs into a group. I love that the party systems here are set up so that it's almost always good to add more people to chat with and fight with. I love building toons while imagining which areas and what type of monsters I'll be good at killing. I love looking forward to whatever new and exciting bad guy will get cooked up and added in to the server, or what new plane. I love that the monsters are never upset no matter how often I beat them down. I love getting myself into more trouble than I can handle, and seeing if I can survive it anyway.

PvP on this server leads to drama far too often. Not a day goes by, not a single day, that I don't hear some player or other comment "I hate so-and-so". That crap doesn't happen from PvM, at least not often.

Don't get me wrong, I like PvP when I'm in the mood for it and so is my opponent, and I wouldn't change a thing about how our pvp rules are or the raiding system etc, but I just want to point out that some of us really have a very fine time enjoying all the stuff the server has to offer that ISN'T pvp. This is a huge server, with so many things to do, maybe take a freaking occasional break from trying to turn everything into people against people. PvP is a part of this server, and that's a goods thing, but it's not ALL there is to it. some nights it feels like people forget that.

[Alkapwn]

I agree the PvM is great. Some of my builds are strictly for PvM but on the most part I build for PvP. Lots of fun to be had in both angles. But the PvP keeps me here. Enemies keep changing, new builds, new tactics as opposed to PvM where once you've mastered an area its just sticking to the formula. The human element and chaos of pvp is the real challenge IMO.

PvP can get pretty heated sometimes. There's a couple players around who take it way to seriously and takes away from the thrill of it. I just keep fighting it out. I don't hold grudges its just a game and probably get along real well with most of my "enemies" in real life. Its also pretty interesting that something so virtual can inspire such real emotion.

[Pappypapa]

It sounds to me like you haven't given PvP a chance yet. Try it, you'll like it. Sure, PvP will sometimes piss you off, and you might rant (some are good at it), but that's because it's interaction between people, and we tend to piss each other off sometimes both irl and online. But only because human interaction pisses ya off sometimes, it doesn't mean you'd have a better time without it. I'm sorry if we ruined the event for you, but this is a PvP server, and just about every area is a hunting ground (including the one you were in).

[Rainswept]

I'm sorry if we ruined the event for you, but this is a PvP server, and just about every area is a hunting ground (including the one you were in).

You know, I was gonna leave last night alone except for a small mention on the list, but I see nothing entertaining about "hunting" in situations like last night, where instead of a contest there was nothing but deliberate abuse of the rules to metagame an advantage. Waiting until an event was going on to:

A) log on a whole group of level 40's to attack people who can't by rules of the server log their 40's in to fight back ~ B) attack people in the middle of a wave of DM spawned monsters so that not only are they drained of spells etc, but the monsters kill half of them (something it's my understanding is supposed to be against the rules) ~ C) Have players in our party wait till the fighting is going on to drop party and attack us, always fun and fair for someone to ask to please join, then a few minutes later get "... now dislikes you" as your own party turns on you ~ D) engage our group for a while, run into Avendell so that we can't fight back, then run back out to fight more

This stuff isn't pvp, it's deliberate and pathetic metagame abuse of the rules. Even if I did love PvP this stuff would leave a sour taste in my mouth. No effort at all was made at pvp, the only effort was to bother other players in whatever unfair way could be manipulated.

[Shhhhhhh]

I guess thats a bit the problem of PVP and the guys 'roleplaying' evil.
Eventually they dont get a kick anymore out of simply killing some low lvls so they come up with other ways to be 'evil' but than that being evil simply means ruin someone elses fun.
The aggressors see it as being evil and bad in game while the other side sees it more as just trying to disrupt game play.

[Rainswept]

The aggressors see it as being evil and bad in game while the other side sees it more as just trying to disrupt game play.

Exactly, except that you can't pass off crap like loggging in 40's as roleplaying. The people who waited 30-40 minutes for an event to start weren't like "Oh it's those evil SL guys, let's fight" they were like "What is wrong with them ruining this event?" "Man I can't fight a group of 40's with my 31" "Look, they just run into Avendell to rest" Evil characters don't manipulate false rules created by the server, that's complete metagaming.

[Pappypapa]

None of the things you mention are against the rules, even though it may not have been the most polite thing to attack you during the event. When Beef and I went there the first time, we weren't roleplaying evil or anything, we just knew a lot of our enemies would be there, so we killed both PC's and NPC's. We never planned on, or expected to be able to, kill everyone or disrupt the event, only bothering you a little and have some fun chaotic rumble fighting. We weren't planning to go back with full force until Korr opened his big mouth. If Brandobaris had wanted us to leave, we would've done so immediately, as we asked him if he wanted us to. If he still feels we ruined his event, I apologise, as this was not the intention.

[Alkapwn]

The aggressors see it as being evil and bad in game while the other side sees it more as just trying to disrupt game play.

Exactly, except that you can't pass off crap like loggging in 40's as roleplaying. The people who waited 30-40 minutes for an event to start weren't like "Oh it's those evil SL guys, let's fight" they were like "What is wrong with them ruining this event?" "Man I can't fight a group of 40's with my 31" "Look, they just run into Avendell to rest" Evil characters don't manipulate false rules created by the server, that's complete metagaming.

For your Information!
We were already logged and having our own private Event with Lolth. She set us loose to kill and destroy.
We just finished our Uniform ceremony and crashing the event seemed a perfect opportunity to show them off.
Brando was just spawning mobs in Ave xing. Lolth just spawned a real mob. Da Lynch Mob!

[Bargeld]

Allow me to provide MY persective of last night.
Note: I will make a few assumptions too!

Pre-reset @ 8pm EST - ALL of DD was gathering for a small 'ceremony' which has been planned for weeks. Brandobaris tosses the idea of an event out there and lays the groundwork for it. His plan is for a party event, questing the planar bosses for items. He states that the event will begin shortly after reset.
Now my assumption here is that Brando was unaware of Kim's ceremony with DD, which was pre-scheduled for the same time (8pm, right after reset).

Post-reset @ 8pm EST - DD is amassed in guildhall, less 2 members we are waiting on. Lolth appears with the intention to begin the ceremony. We all decide to wait on the missing members before beginning. While we are waiting around, Brando starts spawning creatures in Ave crossing.
Now my assumption is that Kim and Brando spoke. That's when Brando makes the announcement that he will go prep for the event and will make an another announcement when he is ready, the 'event' will begin 30 mins after that announcement. I assume this was to allow us ample time to complete our ceremony and then participate in the planar event.
Ceremony then takes about an hour, maybe a little less. During the entire ceremony, creatures are being spawned at Ave crossroads and players are having a 'mini-event'. Our ceremony concludes and all of our lvl 40 Death Dealers have been blessed by Lolth with uniforms, leaving us all hungry to go rampage en-mass... so we do. 2 of our group ran quickly to the crossing, while the reset of us took a few extra minutes to get there. We also combined forces with IO at this time and through the 'event'.
When we got there, there were 3 or 4 vampire sorceresses and a few hecuvas, which were dispacthed not-so-quickly amid the fray. But as the chaos became more organized the enemies got harder and harder until untimately we were fighting 4 dracos, at least one of which was DM controlled (probably 2).

Now at this point, there has been creatures and fighting in the crossroads for near 2 hours. The DM's are enjoying themselves wiping everything and everyone out. I'm not sure if you noticed, but players were constantly being raised by the DMs in order to continue their participation in the fray.

This is where I need to point out a few things for you rain:
1) DMs run events for their enjoyment as well as the players. Their events can be dynamic as they choose how it goes.
2) You had at least half of that mini-event without DD. We participated for the latter half. I don't see how that is unfair to you.
3) The real planar event was probably postponed for a later time due to the mix-up with our ceremony. This is an assumption.
4) Do you have a 40 that could participate? Are you familiar and comfortable with events to know when a DM will be raising PCs in order to prolong everyones fun? To put it in few words: I think you are still naive to events and DM interaction. Thrive to get that 40 so you can feel that you have a sporting chance during an event like last night's. Watch how the DMs run these events and how they treat the corpses. Sometimes you have to spend some time with your face in the dirt, but chances are that you will be getting a raise in order to continue. If not, then enjoy the show like the rest of the corpses.

Events aren't for the benefit of a single player (edit: usually!), and to be honest, I hade a blast last night, so thanks to everyone involved!

[--Ashe--]

A suggestion. If you don't like how things are going, then log out or go elsewhere. It's the DMs job to police nimroddery, and if nothing was done, then apparantly they didn't have an issue with it. Yes, it was lame, but some things you just don't have any control over.

[Rainswept]

I'm not trying to police anyone, nor did I say anyone broke rules. I'm trying to make people aware that many of these stunts are not fun for everyone, and hope that they keep that in mind in the future.

Barg, if Brando wants to speak for his perspective on the matter, he will, doesn't need you or I speculating. I would like to make it clear tho, that the HoD monsters event was mentioned by him in shout long before the planar run idea, and he was deciding which would be more fun, and he also shouted in the middle of your attack that if you continued PKing people he rez'd that he would stop entirely.

Some of the people who actually showed up wanting to do the event might damn well have enjoyed fighting 4 dracos, but instead of everyone having a good time, the stunt made half the people mad. Great job all around.

[Lorkar]

I was one of those that jumped ship so to speak when DD showed up. I did so because I will not fight allies. Now when I first joined party it was to kill critters and maybe get some XP. But when DD showed up and started rampaging as is their nature I dropped and and allied up with them. Had I known they were going to be party to this I would never have joined up with you all in the first place.
And an FYI Rain my character was not a 40 it was a 31. While I was not the greatest in the PvP arena I got my licks in and PK'd my share. Brando obviously did not have too much of a problem since I was DM raised from a few pk's I received.

[Bargeld]

I don't want this to turn into a flame war, so I will simply comment on 1 more thing...

I'm trying to make people aware that many of these stunts are not fun for everyone, and hope that they keep that in mind in the future.

No one thinks it's fun to be PK'd, and this was mentioned in this topic previously. When it's red=dead and you are a PvP'er, you are fully aware that everytime you kill someone, they won't be happy. Such is PvP. How you react to it is what defines you as a player.

In the past I've gone off the handle on a few rants about PvP things I thought were unfair. Time has passed and I have learned and moved on. In hindsight, I look like an idiot:
http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns/viewto ... it=+disarm
I posted that after being here for about 6 months. Boy have I learned a lot since then.

[Tal]

red=dead

Red or blue I don't care. If they are not IO or DD, or untagged and I don't regularly party with them then they have a good chance at being PK'd at any given time regardless of faction (even IO members running untagged toons have run across my path). Such is the way of PvP on NS4. It's not personal, it's a game. As long as you are not losing items or xp I suggest just hitting the respawn button and move on. Otherwise things get said and bad things happen.

Or maybe a simple tell to the pk'er asking them to please stop. No reason to be rude. Most people if addressed in a polite manner will respect a player's wishes to be left alone, with the rare exception of course. Rant and rave and you will probably end up having a bad day as more people get involved. Nobody on the server likes people who whine on shout or send aggressive tells.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Interrupting a DM event by a group of high level toons regardless of whether they are evil or not, should have been dealt with by the DM's. If it wasn't, then why have an event? Unless the event was a chance for the DD's to prove their evil .

Sometimes I get the impression that our DM's are like a bunch of kids with an assortment of magnifying glasses, matches, and wax candles, and we're the anthill for them to poke, prod, and stir up.


I've said all this before, but I'm gonna say it again. This server is built around and designed to enhance PvP. There are some wonderful PvM aspects, but PvP is the focal point. It's what keeps it alive. While NS3.5 was a fun place to be, the PvE aspect lost its luster after a year or so, as you could level a toon to 40 in a day and a half and have all the gear you wanted within a week or two. Here, it takes much longer to level to 40, getting the gear that you want can take months sometimes, and all the while you have to look over your shoulder to make sure someone isn't stalking you.

PvP is a rush, and is the big draw for this server for many of the people who have been here for a long time. It is for me. It can be a bummer when pvp interrupts an event like that. If I was the DM I would have dealt with the situation, and I'm more than curious as to why they didn't. The fact that it wasn't dealt with makes you wonder if the DM didn't sponsor the event purely to draw an attack by the DD's You know stir the hornets nest and see what happens

Either way, it doesn't matter. Expect to be pked. Alot. It's a way of life on this server. Learn to enjoy it.