PvP, stun, grapple and mob spawn

[DM_Kim]

This has been mentioned before and I'll say it again to refresh everyone as more higher level characters are being made and PvP is becoming more prevalent.

The use of Stun, Paralyze, Grapple, skills, feats, abilities or spells.

At no time are these abilities to be used on a player fighting spawn, then leave them to be killed by spawn to suffer XP loss.

If you do uses these abilities while a player is fighting spawn, follow some simple suggestions to avoid questionable tactics.
#1. Make sure the player is not "Near Death" where the very next blow from the spawn will kill them or you will pay the price.
#2. Make sure that if you use these abilities you are a high enough level to kill off the trapped player long before the spawn can.
#3. The safest time is to wait until the player has finished off the spawn, then start your attack.

Anyone caught or proven by Screen Shots to be intentionally paralyzing a player by any means then leaving then to die by spawn will suffer the consequences of their actions.
As goes for pulling a spawn or a swarm of spawn on top of a player with the intent of having the mob kill off the player who then suffers XP loss.

There will be times when "accidents" will happen like during raids, or the initial attacker using a paralyzing ability then gets attacked them self by another players and is unable to kill off the paralyzed player who then suffers "death by spawn".
There will be times when you step into a zone, like on the Mountain Trail where the first Tree Smasher are, hoping to kill a couple more ogres and someone comes running by from in front of you with a few Tree Smashers in tow. So sad to bad. Stuff happens.

If you feel an attack by another player that caused death with the intention of XP loss, take screen shots of your combat log over lapping the entire event from the first attack through to your death, respawning and XP loss. Then inform the attacking player your have done that so they too can take screen shots of their log to defend their actions.

I give warning as well to any player attacking someone with weapons while they are fighting a spawn. You can, but again, make sure you're a high enough level that once you start your attack you kill the other player before the spawn does. As the attacker it is your responsibility to make sure the one your attacking does not suffer XP loss due to spawn death. Best to carry rez scrolls, just in case and check your combat log to make sure you got the death blow in.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

Kim,

#3 concerns me. Why can't that be a rule instead of just a "safest" bet approach. If the player is high enough level to own me anyway why shouldn't they just wait? I'll be exhausted of spells and low on energy, used up tokens etc. While they inturn have fresh rest etc. Why not just wait. If you don't want to wait then don't engage. Move on.

I've seen people engage me while mobbed only to turn away and laugh if the mob gets me. I know this is what you are trying to clarify but it becomes tenuous simply because #3 is a "use best judgement" rule.

Another note:
One challenge I have is that in a situation like this, the Respawn Box delay when killed by a player. This would help me to know whether I had been killed by the player or the mob. ie if it popped up quick I knew I had a problem. Once dead its hard to review the combat log.

So is that effect still in place? I think I took 3 respawn penalties last night. (though the 3rd was my fault )

Thanks for clarifying this. Its difficult to enjoy the time playing when not everyone plays by the rules.

- Glow -

[DM_Kim]

Some players do wait. For the one about to get owned, it's appreciated because they know there won't be XP loss. Waiting, goes towards a player's integrity, of good gaming fun.

#3 concerns me. Why can't that be a rule instead of just a "safest" bet approach.

I've seen people engage me while mobbed only to turn away and laugh if the mob gets me. I know this is what you are trying to clarify but it becomes tenuous simply because #3 is a "use best judgement" rule.

First off we have enough specific rules. This tactic of a few of hit's on a PC to lower their HP and run to let the spawn finish off the player comes under harassment.

That's why the demand for Screen Shots of the combat log. Players who do this intentionally may get away with it the first time, but as more Screen Shots with complaints come in, with the same tactic being used, by the same player or group of players, a pattern emerges and the offending player(s) are dealt with.

[disastro]

is there a way to have the server log the time, place and participant details of every pk? it would reduce the amount of evidence you have to gather to show something happened and would better show patterns of behavior etc. an old mud i played on had an "exploits" log feature on every character (similar to diary entry) that simply showed every pk with your level and the opponents level. it was more used for the glamour of it than for any kind of evidence gathering (i think it also showed bigtime boss kills), but i could see a quest entry put into your diary or something similar.

i.e.
Foo (level 34) killed you (level 32) February 31, 6:30 pm at Avendell Crossing
You (level 32) killed Bar (level 34) February 32, 6:69 am at DM Prize Chamber

as quest entries in a quest diary (or some other dm checkable place).

it wouldnt catch everything but it would help against certain kinds of behavior. i would personally rather not have to screenshot every pk on the off chance it turns into harrasment (and if it ever gets to the point where you have to lawyer up to that extent to have fun, well, it wouldnt be any fun). An automatic log system would probably be a good deterrent in the first place.

[$chase$]

or we could just stick to the way its been for what 3 4 5 years now.. and let the devs work on things that need it.

[diddy33]

AO jobs?

[TheEnlightened]

AO jobs?

2 of the 3 AO jobs simply dos not work.

In LA there are 2 perfectly fine jobs, that no one can do. can we pleace just move those 2 into the empty slots in AO?

[mgrjebbo]

SERIOUSLY!

I heard a few times how they are the hardest thing in dev work. Thats fine, doesnt mean you cant just move the NS jobs over........and they suck yes, however no jobs suck more.

They really do mean alot to the playablility of a faction at lower levels.

[Reaver.....[RR]]

Doesn't really mean they are an essential part of lower level faction playability.

Personally I'd rather Dev's devoted that time to fixing up imbalances, updating server to full 1.69 playability etc, etc, than worrying about jobs, which would occupy more time for less output.

[Jacks Revenge]

Thats because RK already has good jobs, AO we have nothing, so of course you would say you want the Dev's to do something besides help another Faction

[diddy33]

Personally I'd rather Dev's devoted that time to fixing up imbalances, updating .

I think that AO not having jobs is quite an imbalance.

[Shhhhhhh]

If you feel an attack by another player that caused death with the intention of XP loss, take screen shots of your combat log over lapping the entire event from the first attack through to your death, respawning and XP loss. Then inform the attacking player your have done that so they too can take screen shots of their log to defend their actions.

I give warning as well to any player attacking someone with weapons while they are fighting a spawn. You can, but again, make sure you're a high enough level that once you start your attack you kill the other player before the spawn does. As the attacker it is your responsibility to make sure the one your attacking does not suffer XP loss due to spawn death. Best to carry rez scrolls, just in case and check your combat log to make sure you got the death blow in.

Is there really no other way to report this than send all the screenshots?
If someone attacks you while you're fighting mobs, it can take quite a while before they kill you, which results in 10 or more screenshots and eventually the exp loss.
all just to remind someone there are some rules that would be nice to be followed.

[DM_Kim]

Unfortunately Screens Shots are the only and best evidence of an illegal combat death, next to actual DM witness of the event. Doesn't matter how many SS it takes to show the event either. We will go over every one of them.

As you know, all players tell the truth about an issue that arises. The only problem is, that depending on what side of the issue you are on will define your view of the truth. Therefore, the only way we as staff can sort through these "different" views is through the Screen Shots.

[disastro]

Unfortunately Screens Shots are the only and best evidence of an illegal combat death, next to actual DM witness of the event. Doesn't matter how many SS it takes to show the event either. We will go over every one of them.

since it can be hard to show "intent" on the part of another player, an alternative to analyzing a long string of screenshots might be to simplify the rule to "do not attack another player fighting mobs, except in relic zones etc." this way you're outlawing a specific action, and not intent (i.e. no need to consider "gee, i didnt MEAN to cause xp loss.. it just sorta happened OOPS."). generally you can capture that in 2 screenshots: attack and death showing xp loss.

[DM_Kim]

I can see it now. "You can't attack me during this raid because I am fighting an epic defender. You have to stand there and wait until I am done."

PvP at any time is what this server is about. Just in some cases must an attacker be extra careful. You will find that the most players do wait until your done fighting the mob in order to allow you to collect the xp from the kill. Some will even allow you to grab your loot drop. More power to them.

I do understand that some like to run the risk and feel strongly that they "must attack" while your fighting away and maybe injured. They are the ones willing to take a chance of being on the short end of the stick in the long run. If they screw up and it's shown they will be the ones paying a price. If it can be shown by Screen Shots.

If you rather not take Screen Shots PM any DM, tell your story and the team will keep an eye out on the named offending play. Keep in mind that we're not going to follow any individual for hours while they play just to see if they mess up somewhere. WE do have other things to do when in game.