Rallying for Rangers in SL

[Korr]

NS 4 you cant say that much about though. Look at harm and heal and haste and a plethera of other spells that are 3.5 based, not 3e. Not to mention the ranger bonuses are in part aligned with the 3.5 ranger.

[Blystos Re]

"Dear devs,

Please yank out and re-write the code for either Rangers to make their goodies work anywhere but a building, or to change Underdark to an "outdoor wilderness". I realize that the game isn't perfectly in-line with DnD PnP rules, so if you can let me know when you can fix it so that it is perfect I'd really appreciate it. Please hurry up.

Also, please make them summon a Legendary Bear, Wolf or Eagle, depending on alignment, at lvl 14 so they can pwn. Rangers don't get to pwn enough and that makes me sad.

If anyone asks you to fix AO jobs first, please ignore them.

Thanks,

~Re"

/sarcasm

[-Saviour Sev-]

I honestly don't care if the bonuses do not work underground.
I also do not see how it will become inbalanced (unbalanced?)
A Hipsing assassin? Sure, you could have one. But to make that you need 21 ranger lvls. So that leaves you with what, max 19 assassin lvls.
Now your not gonna have a very spectacular DC on death attack and vial of lolth there, roughly 40. I know the vast majority of toons out there will be able to save that quite easily. A hipsing sd crippler rogue would be far more effective.
I would just like to know why rangers are not allowed. They seem to fit. Tep has quoted balance issues. What issues are we talking here? Plz explain

Give NC rogues and sorcs and maybe I'll change my mind, but for now...

I also agree that NC should have rogues, not sorcs though. A rogue can work for good in the world too. Serving as a scout, diplomat, investigator, etc. They have many roles, many of which would fit perfectly within NC.

[Korr]

Im just stating things that I know... and never once asked for things to be changed about the spells, and just made a few comments in the ranger summon postings. The technical standpoint is where I spoke from in PnP (cuz I know that too well). Im fine with such things just working outside in the wilderness. I think that a ranger has a better place in SL than a barbarian does. Rangers know stealth and cunning and hunting tactics... they would fit right in. A barbarian knows how to scream and run and attract WAY too much attention. Wasnt Drizz't a ranger? And possibly part rogue if i remember correctly (been a L O N G time).

I am with Sev tho, if its balance issues... what specifically are they? SL has one of the tighter alignment restrictions... ANY race, but u HAVE to be evil... unless youre a drow. Which means there are a few races we CANT be because of that... and it limits what we can do with neutral only races because then you HAVE to be neutral evil. RK sits with any alignment, any class except unique PrC and AA (cuz no elves). The dwarf/gnome restriction isnt that harsh, there are alot of greatly balanced gnome and dwarf subraces to allow you to build an exceptional... anything except maybe a sorc.

[Shamed Monkey]

You have not played RK. I can't tell you how disappointing it was to know that your build could have been far more awesome as something else. And pre wipe, we had no keen senses....Yeah, the race restrictions in RK suck.

[Korr]

I specifically went through all the gnome and dwarf subraces before I made that post... if you think you had it really bad you need to take a second look at your opportunities Monkey...

[Nyeleni]

SNIPA barbarian knows how to scream and run and attract WAY too much attention. Wasnt Drizz't a ranger? And possibly part rogue if i remember correctly (been a L O N G time).

SNIP

No, he was a fighter in the underdark, maybe even a barbarian in the years outside Menzoberranzan, only after he left it, he became a ranger under the guidance of Montolio. I knew this would come .

[Daltian]

And Drizz't wouldn't apply to SL. He would probably be considered TC anyway.

[Lorkar]

Heres a little something I came across. Not that it will make any difference.




Underdark Ranger
“ Tha'shai sniffed the air. Goblins... at last! His prize! They where just ahead. He creeped up cautiously, and darted out of the rocks, grabbing one of them and pulling its struggling form into the darkness. It did not cry out, for his hand covered its mouth. ”

Underdark Rangers are stealthy drow who specialize in tracking slaves and drow enemies through the underdark, to destroy them from behind, stealthily.

Adventure: Underdark rangers normally adventure in the underdark as a service to Lolth, or to bring back slaves for the drow cities. A few drow who turn from the drow path become Underdark Rangers to track down and slay drow slavers, and to generally cause the drow grief (usually in the service of arachne).

Characteristics: Chaotic Evil Underdark Rangers care nothing of the suffering of others, wishing only to cause pain and suffering, and to prove their worth. Chaotic good Underdark Rangers wish to remove the prejudice upon them, and wish to destroy those that forged the renown of the drow. Both are stealthy characters, always on the alert. It is very difficult indeed to sneak up on a Ranger, though it is not impossible...

Religion: Most Underdark Rangers worship Lolth. The few that don't are rebel drow who worship Arachne.

Background: Underdark Rangers where originally rangers who worked as slavers to track down creatures to make slaves. Some then adapted their fighting stile to track creatures around the Underdark. These passed on their art to any who wished to learn the art of tracking in the Underdark.

Races: Drow are the only race that become Underdark Rangers, therefore they are the only race that can become them.

Other Classes: Amongst clerics they are just useful resources who wish to prove their worth to Lolth. To other classes they are not to be trusted, for drow are known to kinslay...

Role: Underdark Rangers are the scouts of an underdark adventuring party, scouting ahead of the group and tracking...enemies.
[edit] Game Rule Information

Underdark Rangers have the following game statistics:

Abilities:

Alignment:Must be chaotic aligned

Starting Age:

Starting Gold:


Table: The Underdark Ranger Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special —Spells per Day—
1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 1st favored enemy, Underdark Track, Spider empathy — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Combat style — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Sneak Attack +1D6 — — — —
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Spider companion 0 — — —
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 2nd favored enemy 0 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Improved combat style 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Cavern stride 1 — — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Swift Undertracker 1 0 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Evasion 1 0 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 3rd favored enemy 1 1 — —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Combat style mastery 1 1 0 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 1 1 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Camouflage 1 1 1 —
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 2 1 1 0
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 4th favored enemy 2 1 1 1
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 2 2 1 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Hide in plain sight 2 2 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 3 2 2 1
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 3 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 5th favored enemy 3 3 3 3

Class Skills (6+Int modifier per level; ×4 at 1st level)
Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
[edit] Class Features

All of the following are class features of the Underdark Ranger:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: . The Underdark Ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor and shields (except tower shields).

Favored Enemy (Ex): The Underdark Ranger has favored enemies just as Rangers do (see the Ranger class for details. However, the underdark ranger chooses favored enemies from table: Ranger Favored Enemies. You may also choose specific favored enemies from this list: Chitine, Deep Imaskari, Drow, Duergar, Gloaming, Grimlock, Kuo-Toa, Slyth, Svirfneblin, Derro, Mind Flayer, Minotaur, Orog, Quaggoth, Tanarukk and Troglodite. The normal favored enemies do not include creatures from the above list (Humanoid (Elf) does not include Drow). Specific favored enemies grant the Underdark Ranger double the normal bonus that the Underdark Ranger would get from a non-specific favored enemy (chosen from the table: Ranger Favored Enemies).

Underdark Track (Ex): The underdark Ranger has the Track feat. She gains a +4 Competence bonus for tracking in the Underdark (or other cavern complex, etc), and a -4v circumstance penalty for tracking elsewhere.

Spider Empathy (Ex): The ranger may (if she wishes) have the Vermin empathy feat (from Drow of the Underdark) or choose to treat Monstrous Spiders as Animals for the purposes of Animal Handling. She gets a +4 Circumstance bonus for Animal Handling skill checks on Monstrous Spiders.

Combat Style (Ex): The Underdark Ranger can have combat styles just as a Ranger can, treating Underdark Ranger levels as Ranger levels for the purposes of combat styles.

Sneak Attack (Ex): At 3rd level, the Underdark Ranger can sneak attack for +1D6 damage as a 1st level Rogue can.

Spider Companion (Ex): An Underdark Ranger may have an animal companion just as a Ranger would (counting Underdark Ranger levels for the purposes of animal companions). However, this Animal Companion MUST be a Medium Monstrous Spider (becoming an animal, rather than a vermin). The Spider Companion has Intelligence and Charisma Equal to that of the character. The other abilities are: Dex +6, Con +2. An Underdark Ranger may only have a Medium Monstrous Spider as an Animal Companion, and if she already has an animal companion, its body disintegrates, and it becomes a Medium Monstrous Spider. An Underdark Ranger may NOT have a familiar or similar being. A spider companion speaks all the languages that the character does. The spider companion is considered to be intelligent (but cannot have class levels). This is because spider companions are often gifted with greater intelligence via divine means, or subject to some form of magical effect.

Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, the Underdark Ranger gets an Improved Combat Style as a Ranger of the same class level does.

Cavern Stride (Ex): At 7thb Level, an Underdark Ranger may move at full speed through rocky areas (ignoring damage taken from sharp rocks etc.) as if it was open ground. This includes areas enchanted (etc.) to impede movement.

Swift Tracker: At 8th level, an Underdark Ranger gains the Swift Tracker ability as a ranger of the same class level does.

Evasion (Ex): At 9th level an Underdark Ranger gains the Evasion ability as a Ranger of the same class level does.

Combat Style Mastery (Ex): At 11th level, an Underdark Ranger gains the Combat Style Mastery as a Ranger of the same Level does.

Camouflage (Ex): At 13th level, an Underdark Ranger can hide in any sort of rocky or cavern terrain, gaining a +4 Competence bonus to his Hide skill checks when hiding in such an area.

Hide in plain Sight: At 17th Level, the Underdark Ranger gets the Hide in plain sight ability just as a Ranger of the same class level.

[deathdancer]

Call them Shadowstalkers maybe? An underdark ranger just doesn't sound right to me.

[Celorn]

NO WAY

[maibs]

rangers exist in all wilderness areas
is the underdark man-made ?
or is the interior of a mountain naturally occurring phenomenon ?
if it's naturally occurring then a ranger could find his home there.
look at the favored enemies list, are any of those inhabitants of the underdark ?
rangers aren't all tree huggers.
some are at one on the mountains
presumably some would be at one in the mountains.
seems simple enough to me.

[Celorn]

I agree that rangers should have their wilderness bonuses in ALL the wilderness yeah... anything that's a naturally occuring landscape above or below the ground, they are masters of blending into it.

But with the nerfs to camoflage who cares? you aren't gonna be able to make a decent ranger hips toon now anyhow. (unless they're gearing up to indroduce the pure ranger with hide/ms bonuses - bah to that - no more WoW in my ns4 plz)

As for SL getting rangers... HA! full bab and free dual wielding, 20%speed, free imp.eveasion, BoE, hipsing assasins. i see the problem... and this would be strange because SL people would be running around above ground constantly because they are more powerful in the sun in wilderness areas yeah, that makes no sense. Similar problems with MA getting rangers, arcane vs. divine/nature and pm rangers would be pretty OP.

[disastro]

once hips was added to rangers (in outdoors), the reason for their restriction from ma/sl became obvious. no hips assassins or palemasters k thx bye.

im guessing this change was one of those long planned, never got around to it kind of things.

on a different server a standard tactic was for a hips assassin to run through an entire map paralyzing every mob for the 20 or so minutes that it lasted. the rest of the party would clean up after him. hips assassin would be REAL REAL bad. their death attack is hard coded and can not be changed short of a hak. and if you're running the line that "underground == natural terrain" then logic would dictate that ranger hips should work there too. teh suck!

hips palemaster wouldnt be quite as bad, but would cause enough problems that they get the banstick too. though tep's right, no monks in tc would probably saved a few man-years of code & balance time for the cost of an utterly non-rp restriction.

edit: for the record neverwinter nights is a 3/3.5e hybrid. in a strict rules lawyer sense its 3e, however bioware worked with wotc pretty closely in developing the game. at the time, 3.5e was in development, so there was some cross pollination to neverwinter nights as a result.

[Korr]

Oh yeah sorry, hipsing assassins are too much. A lil FoM or a party with cure para scrolls/spells. But lets let the NC people who can farily easily reach over 20 divine (unstoppable basically) damage use monks that dual-wield with ferocity due to 20 base paladin levels. So 30 BAB + 15 dex + 3 feats = 48, so 68 max AB with +20 cap. so take off 4 for TWF and Flurry... doing good only 10 attacks around at 64/61/58/55/52/49/64/61/64/64, so youre looking at a good 5-6 hits around, thats 100-120 damage per round with just divine damage. Id take a removable para over that anyday!

But I will say for sure the RP of Monks in NC fits very very well! And I just have to make toons with 85 AC ';) I just really think that rangers are as far as RP goes a much more fitting class for SL than say the barbarian, could almost see bard as a non-SL class because again like I said before about being in the underdark.... If you run around like a barbarian/bard would then youre bound to not make it home. Theres a reason Drow "speak" 2 languages... one spoken at home, the other when out and about. The latter being sign-language because they know better than to stirr the beings of the underdark.