A friendly game of...

[Bargeld]

There was massive PvP play this eve and the blood flowed freely in the streets and fields of LA. We even attended a great pure fighter vs pure fighter duel in the middle.

That's why we are all here, we spend countless hours of play time building characters that we are proud of and then pit them against others with the same mentality. Most seek out PvP. For many, the relics are merely a catalyst to a fight... as it was tonight in LA. There were even a couple of raiders who continued to fight, oblivious to the relics on their backs.

But I tell ya, nothing stops the fun quicker than a PvP disarm that takes your weapon. I have seen it happen numerous times, and have even lost a number of weapons myself. I have only seen one instance of where a weapon was not returned to the owner after the battle was completed, and I think it was deserved, as the character was being quite rude and verbal throughout the battles.

Tonight I was disarmed in battle. Since the point of this particular battle was for pure PvP enjoyment, I was quite surprised when I was ignored while offereing items for trade to return my weapon. Given that this glimmer blade is named, and custom colored, there is history behind it. More specifically, these 'gifts' were imbued upon the weapon for assistance to the gods of the realms (the REAL pantheon).

I asked the disarmer if he would be willing to trade back for it or if it was going to end up hanging on a wall... the response received was that he had 'run out of nails to hang it, lol'. Quite cryptic and definately not answering my inquiry. It was around this time (10 mins after the disarm and all trading efforts) that my teammates informed me that he didn't think that I had asked nicely enough. I was not rude, nor did I ask for my pig sticker back. Instead, I went straight to barter. The weapon was disarmed fairly during the fight. The fight had concluded. He had earned something for it and I was willing to pay that price.

I make the following assertions based on this experience:
1) The disarmer was fully aware that I wanted my weapon back and had discussed it with other players and had decided he did not want to return the weapon to me, or even to respond meaningfully to my inquiry.
2) The disarmer was aware of the aesthetic value of the item to me, and to refuse to even discuss the matter without any due cause (any negative behaviour on my part) shows that his intention was to cause undue hardship on me as a player and disrupt my enjoyment of the game. (I am not petitioning for DM intervention, merely stating an assumption so that others may consider it.)
3) I am no longer offering to trade for the item back. If you feel shame for your actions as a player, then ask me to take it back.

Chode McBob of -=HNs=- (TrippingTheRift) I want all on the server to know that you have wronged me as a player, and not as a character.

[ashsagoon]

Wow.. all you had to do was say "Can I please have my weapon back?" Instead you demanded it at first. I told Shishio to tell you just to politely ask. You never did. Maybe you were sending tells to someone else but I only got one tell from you and you asked if i was trading it or putting it on the wall. I made a joke back and never heard from you. I told Shishio several times if you just asked me nicely you could have it. He said he told you. I dont want you to beg, I dont want you to have to trade anything, I simply would like a polite request. I don't keep weapons 99.9% of the time. I have only kept one before and that was when the person in question broke the rules i laid forth (which was don't attack for 2 min so I can give it back to you).

Anyway, that's beside the point. If you just ask you can have it back. I'm not trying to upset anyone or steal weapons. I am not Galahad . I just ask that you ask for your weapon nicely. If you don't, then I will assume you don't want it.

I'd like to note that the kama I picked up has the simple white glow on it and is named normally. I'm not sure if it lost the effects and name when being disarmed or if it only looks that way to the person wh ohad it done. I really hope it didn't lose the effects you had on it.

Also, you made no attempt to trade other than your asking if i was going to trade it. Not that I even wanted anything for it. Maybe you were sending tells to the wrong person and didn't know it. You DID demand your pig sticker back at first. I don't care, just ask nicely.

You said "give me my pig sticker back". In talk, many saw it. Then you sent me one tell saying "are you willing to trade that or are you going to hang it on your wall." To which I did reply what you said. You never said anything else to me.

Get your story straight and just ask next time. I still have it like I said, if you ask me for it it's yours.

-Chode

[Bargeld]

Perhaps you remember the local talk of my offers for a dwarven crafted rapier 2x. My initial response was an entirely real time and RP response. Put yourself in character for a sec... if you were involved in a fight and was disarmed wouldn't you make some sort of comment? Mine happened to be 'gimme my pig sticker back' in mid-round in a 5 v 3 battle. Was this a honest barter request or just part of the fight? Seriously.

Let me add another RP element into it... what happens when word gets out that a DD member 'asked nicely' for their weapon from an LA defender. I upheld DD ideals by not asking for my weapon. I had decided I would not 'ask' for the weapon right then on the battlefield when it happened. A master of stealth and shadows like myself is much more accustomed to dealing with situations of ransom and manipulation, and so I did the sensible thing, I offered trade. Like I said, you had earned the weapon and I was willing to pay for its return. You will find this sentiment amoung a lot of players... no one wants a handout if they are able to maintain their pride by trading something.

Am i supposed to be a good boyfriend and know what questions to ask and when to ask them? No. You got a weapon. You knew I was interested in getting it back. You cracked one joke and never made any other comment to me. On this side of the table, I was expecting you to respond to tell me, 'a dwarven craften rapier isn't an equal trade' or 'do you have a regular glimmer blade for it'. Or even better! When I was standing around after that battle, when I showed myself in front of 5 red LA folx, and right before Glow showed up and killed me, not knowing what was happening, how bout you just say 'here you go', give it to me, then kill me like the other times I've been disarmed. Even when I asked if you wanted to trade for and you did reply, but that reply did not answer my question, and honestly, I was left at the keyboard wondering how to respond, and instead waited for your answer which never came. The fact is that you said nothing and did nothing... because you wanted to turn it into a situation. If I wanted drama I would play The Sims.

You have no reason to be upset about anything, but I do. I've already stopped playing for the eve, mulled it over and made my conclusions. Had you said this at the end of the battle it may have turned out differently, but you didn't. You kept the weapon for whatever reason you rationalized and I left the game with a pissy feeling and a new enemy to hunt down. It's a bit late to 'ask nicely'. I'd rather help the gods 2 more times and make a new one. Besides, I might not be able to get it back at all now, if it's been reverted.

[ashsagoon]

You never offered anything that I saw not that it matters. I really don't care. I guess you don't want it back then. It did lose all the enchantments and I spent the time to test this out with a dm to prove that it will lose the effects when disarmed. I think they have a fix for it now. Regardless, the dm told me to keep it and not give it back to you. I told them I didn't want anyone to get upset over a game but oh well. They might have fixed it for you but I guess you're too proud.

Oh well, if you're so into role playing that you can't ask another person for your weapon back then I guess you don't need it. Perhaps you're taking a game a little too seriously.

But I'm done with this. I don't get on the forums to flame people. If you want it, ask for it. If not then I'll give it to someone else I really don't care.

[Alkapwn]

I've had the same problem with this player. his claim of 99.9% return rate is greatly exagerated
I've lost at least 3 weapons to one his toons and 1 to his cronies and he in turn bragged about it on shout. Doesnt really bother me all that much. Just shows what kinda player he or she is.
So i just stopped asking for my weapons back and plan to treat him and his ilk with the same lack of respect *shrugs* owell. Most weapons are ez to get . A couple of the rarer ones i just refuse to use in pvp with a lower discipline toon.

[Bargeld]

Ultimately what it comes down to is this:

You know the feeling you get when you get disarmed? You scramble and look around on the ground, afraid that the server is going to crash at that exact moment in time.

When I saw that it was picked up in the battle, I was honestly relieved. I never ever considered that I wouldn't get the weapon back right after the battle. I assumed that all of the players that I was up against were the same fellows I was used to playing with and so all was well. By holding out on giving back the weapon for any longer than necessary prolongs that feeling of 'oh crap i might not get my weapon back'. To do this to another player without provocation is just plain rude, in my eyes.

Because of my long history in gaming, I have lost thousands of 'things', so I get over it quick. By holding on to the weapon for any reason, it made me consider the fact that I would lose it, and I quickly I overcame that fear. At that point I just said to myself "wow that's was really, really lame of him." But you are right, I probably should have kept this to tells in-game for tomorrow.

My suggestion, to end this pissing contest is for me to say that i still think it was lame to hold out on giving it back. If I had been a jerk prior to that battle or something I would understand, but that wasn't the case. I, on the other hand, did jump to the public forum while heated, and shouldn't have.

I will not ASK, but I would request NICELY for my pig sticker back (gods permitting).

Fair enough?

P.S. This is a useless thread for most of you, and probably doesn't belong here.

[ashsagoon]

Only weapon I've ever kept, because someone can't read.


Lie all you want.

Disarming is part of the game. If you don't want to lose a weapon then don't use it in pvp, especially when there is one or 3 pure fighters attacking you. If your weapon gets disarmed and is lost because no one picked it up before the map was reset then that's your fault. I pick them up to help others so they don't get lost because I have had mine lost. There is no obligation to give any weapons back, and most people don't. Every DD that has disarmed me or anyone I know has kept the weapons and bragged about it. Yet I have still been nice except for keeping R'peet's weapon after he came in and assassin stunned me and left me when I was trying to give him his weapon back.

Anyway I've said my piece and the more I read here the less I feel like ever giving weapons back. I understand people get upset about things so either pm me on the forums or talk to me in game if you want to discuss this further Bargeld.

[diddy33]

well since he won't say the magic words, hey Ashsagoon, DIBS!!!

[Jacks Revenge]

I Have to Agree, Every DD who has Disarmed me has kept my weapons as well, i guess as the old saying goes "Nothing is as hard to do gracefully as getting down off your high horse." I have lost countless of weapons and it is upsettin but i have found most players are very likely to give your weapon back..if you just ASK NICELY

my two cents

[DM_Kim]

This is coming from DM that had Disarming fighters and who has been disarmed many times herself, who has also heard just about every whine about losing to disarm that there can be.

First of all, Disarm is a well earned feat backed with skill. It is 100% the option of the person who has disarmed and acquired the "lost" weapon as to whether or not to return it. Some always return disarmed weapons while others never do regardless of how politely one may ask for it back. That is entirely up to them. Ask if you must, plead your case to the 'holder" of the weapon get their reply and then Let It Go. This is a game. Disarm is not personal. And here is something we all forget when we ascribe personal value to an in-game item. It's made from a a bunch of "1's and 0's" and there are a number of ways that that "1's and 0's" can get wiped out.

All Disarm allows is the faint hope that the item maybe returned to you somehow. As stated: In PvP - Don't want to Lose it, then don't Use it.

Don't forget there are lots nasties monsters out there that Disarm as well.

[-BannyD-]

what the heck? when was this server full of whiney losers....oh......wait....

you got disarmed, deal with it

[Amoenotep]

banny is right.....disarm keepies is part of the game..if it hurts you feelings to be disarmed and not get your weapon back, make an unarmed monk.

[Bloodstone]

*looks up at the last 3 comments* lol, that pretty much sums it up

[mgrjebbo]

I have nothing constructive to add to this topic.

[Bargeld]

Bah, my posts were too long, or at least long enough to make you guys skip reading them in entirety.

It's not the disarm or loss of weapon that i found to be the problem, it was the player. The only people who truly know 'how it went down' are him and I, so I expect no sympathy from the peanut gallery, hence my closing statement earlier, that it does not apply and probably wasn't meant to be here (which was a subtle hint to *delete thread* without trying to tell the admins how to do their job). It's easy for passers-by to come, glance at a topic and go 'huh it's a disarm, duh'. But I think mgrjebbo said it best.