Creeping Doom

[Eldaquen]

Thread was started asking: "just wondering if someone could clarify the rules on creeping doom, as i've heard its not allowed to stack them. are you allowed to stack them and if so is there a limit?"

The spirit of my answer was there is no specific rule regarding use of specifically to CREEPING DOOM. Of course general server commandments apply to use of spell as to any other spell or melee/range as well or behavior in general. My response was aimed to answer there is no specific rule that applies to CREEPING DOOM ALONE.

[LinuxPup]

As far as I know there are no official rules on Creeping Doom... I just ask as a favor that if the server has a decent amount of people on... like say 40+ or so you keep it "down"... like maybe 2-3 max. If there are 15 people on, feel free to spam Creeping Doom. Our new server is considerably faster than our older one, but it obviously has its limits... I'm sure everyone has enjoyed the AI when the server hits capacity.

[Eldaquen]

My calculation was merely a suggestion if spell to be changed to start at 5d6 last only up to 8 rounds (16 rounds extended), be target specific, dispellable by dismissal and only one spell affect on 1 target at a time. Just a suggestion since changes appeared under consideration.

As it stands now yes: 1d6 at round 1 and so on until round 40 (if lvl 40 druid) of 40d6 which is max one time hit of 240 peirced damage. If extended then at round 80 (lvl 40 druid) 80d6 so 480 peirce damage.

[Lokey]

Way back when, I spent a few hours over several days auditing all the spells then in and doing a lot of bugfixes/tweaks seat of pants style. Most of those have been revisited, doom hasn't

It's pretty sloppy code, should be fixed for that alone (a few other druid AoEs fall under this as do some of the grenades).

So semi-random ideas:

- Clears existing dooms in its AoE when cast.
- Remove spell resist, perhaps some alternate if cast on a creature and someone feels ambitious.
- No movement speed effect (I don't think swarms have the push through rule that creatures do, since they occupy other creature's space and so on). I don't want to deal with the low dc poison...seems pointless (well failing that dc 13 save is really really really bad--nauseated is one step up from dead lol, but who's going to fail that)?
- No SR check.
- Same duration (round per level).
- Damage: Start at 4d6 pierce, increase by d6 per round up to caster level d6? Damage taken on enter and on AoE's heartbeat?

[Eldaquen]

If changes are necessary making Creeping doom as SoV as one per zone this would render spell non affective as Area it covers too small and to easily avoided unless cast on a transistion or outside a spawn point: both of which seems to be what people are in a huff about. Out in open who in right mind would enter it; other than someone with 50%immunity/20 resist pierce and over 500 hps would care less (even at round 40 doom would only do 100 points of damage due to armor and shield, 40 rounds to do 100 points!!!). Or someone with FoM and haste plus monk speed bonus that runs right thru inbetween spell heartbeats. When was last time a druid survived 40 rounds in pvp other than shifting to dragon shape.

What other spell is left to use offensively?
9th lvl Earthquake with DC 35 reflex for 1/2 wait evasion negates.
8th lvl Bombardment with DC 40 reflex for 1/2 evasion negates.
8th lvl Finger of Death with DC 34 fort save what lvl 40 build would not save against this?
8th lvl sun beam DC 34 reflex save to negate.
8th lvl sunburst DC 34 reflex save
7th lvl Fire storm DC 33? reflex for 1/2 evasion negates.
7th lvl Harm no save but UEF negates and must successfully succeed in melee attack assuming did not get kd getting close to opponent.
6th lvl Drown DC 32 fort save for Negates
5th lvl Inferno spell with no saves but SR only does 2d6 fire damage per round.
5th lvl Ice storm no save no SR **
4th lvl Flame Strike DC 30 reflex for 1/2 evasion negates.
3rd lvl Call Lightning DC 29 relfex for 1/2: evasion negates.
3rd lvl quill fire no save *don't recall changes in change log*

Take doom out of spell book and what is druid to rely on when 7 out of the 13 damage producing spells are reflex save for 1/2 but since most opponents are a rogue or monk build variation reflex for no damage. 2 are fort save with low DC. The DC's on reflex saves are easily obtained even by str build standards. DC's obtained casting from Netya'nis in game who is 40th lvl epic conjure focused. With reflex save DC's so low is it a wonder why druids rely on creeping doom. Other than creeping doom; dragon shape is only other viable offensive option for pure druid.

Ice storm is the only range spell that does not have a reflex or SR component. Basically this is the spell druids need to rely on? Ice Storm, stilled ice storm, empowered ice storm, maximized ice storm and quickened ice storm? Netya'nis ice storm highest damage was 46. So to successfully raid she would need to cast the spell at least 12 times to kill a defender with average hps for a pvp build, assuming they don't heal.

Bombardment has highest DC out of the reflex save spells. Builds' reflex saves from what I have seen are above 30 even in str builds. Leaving Ice storm, quill fire and Harm.

Netya'nis, a pure druid, with spell craft save vs spell adjustment has reflex save of 34. Even she is able to avoid most of her own spells with a reflex save component.

If have to change the spell a better alternative would be to adjust creeping doom so similar to that of Inferno with progressive damage to the one targeted creature. Or please consider adjusting reflex save DC's on other spells such as earthquake, bombardment or Chain lightning.

Shouldn't a lvl 40 pure caster be able to do damage with spells?

[Korr]

Druids have alot of options to them outside of offensive, 33% concealment in 1 spell to AN ENTIRE party. ii can do 50% one at a time. . . think of 2 toons running together a cleric and a druid. Invis purge, mass camou. . . they recast ii, you recast invis purge and mass camou. The lack of concealment is a HUGE hit to anyone. Trust me my current run around is a cleric and a cot and neither have concealment. I cant kill in places I should be able to because of it, if my wiz casts ii on my cot then i travel out I can wreck much harder places than I cant with that one spell. Shapechange the spell is still good. druids have a repritoire of anti-movement, entangle and such spells. . . I dont consider these offensive. I 110% agree druids have little for offensive than creeping doom, earthquake, bombardment. My 30 crafter can raid because of conjuration focus and bombardment. As soon as a player steps in those 2 bombardment spells that took out ALL the NPCs dont do anything to the PC.

I think Creeping Doom should keep the hampering movement, as it was said before. Its not that there are 1000000 bugs in your way (meaningless of the number) its that there are 1000000 bugs BITING you, one or more are BOUND to hit a tender spot (Im sure we all know these spots). There for stopping you for a split second to swat at that area/bug. This doesnt really stop your movement, but slows you down for sure.

Again though According to the wiki, at 40th round a creeping doom will deal 40 + 39 + 38 + 37 + ... + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1d6 damage, this is WAY more than 40d6.

[Anelad]

Again though According to the wiki, at 40th round a creeping doom will deal 40 + 39 + 38 + 37 + ... + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1d6 damage, this is WAY more than 40d6.

only if there's a creature stands still in the doom for 40 rounds.

[cRaZy8or5e]

Creeping Doom is one of the most difficult spells to use and one of the easiest high level spells to avoid. FoM can help you avoid it, something any mage who invests themselves up to artisan level in crafting can get. High monk SR can avoid it. The spell is not party friendly or faction friendly so it takes careful planning and timing to use effectively.

Why is there a discussion about the use of this spell? Nobody even used it till Elda started stacking it on transitions and people started claiming that after this server has been active for what 3? 4? years, she found an "I win" button.

By virtue of how easy this spell is to avoid, and how difficult it is to use, shouldn't it be left alone?

Wasn't this a simple question about whether stacking was legal?

Even more hilarious is that poor Eldaquen has been told by staff that she couldn't stack more than what 3? 4? 5? Now its ok to stack? What in the wide wide world of sports is-a-goin-on around here!

[Korr]

I have yet to see SR have any effect on Creeping Doom. I regularly take damage even when there is no "This creatures might overcomes you spell resistance" and it instead tells me "Spell Resisted". Also it racks up the d6 damage per round, whether someone is within the creeping doom or not. Apparently (according to nwn.wikia.com again) if there are more creatures than one in the creeping doom it stacks even faster.

Description: The caster summons a mass of biting and stinging insects which causes 1d6 points of damage. For every subsequent round that a creature remains within the area of effect, the damage inflicted is increased by an increment of 1d6 (i.e. 1d6 for the first round, 2d6 for the second, 4d6 for the third, 7d6 for the fourth, and so on). The spell deals damage until its duration expires or it deals 1,000 points of damage.

Notes: The spell description is incorrect when it comes to the damage sustained. According to the spell script, the insects deal 1d20 damage upon entry (which isn't included in the 1,000 damage limit). The heartbeat script increments by 1d6 for each creature and round. So, if there are three creatures in the swarm, it will do 1d6 to the first, 2d6 to the second and 3d6 to the third and then next round it will do 4d6, 5d6, etc.
The spell also inflicts a 50% movement speed decrease.

EDIT : Oh and I believe the stacking thing has to do with server lag. I have personally for fun taken my druid into a relic cradle and loaded down all my spell levels I could (including extended, quickened, etc) with things like Creeping doom, Vine Mine, Grease, Web, and a few other druid have access to just to pop the cradle and watch them pour into my spells. This will damn near kill any computer alone (Infact when I get home I will go look for the SS I took of it)

[Lokey]

Shouldn't a lvl 40 pure caster be able to do damage with spells?

No. (Creature/item design problem that isn't going to change.)

::Checks game data:: Let's see the only player available AoEs from spells with larger AoE than Creeping Doom's 6.7m are...Storm of Vengence and the entry for Stonehold that isn't used anymore

Camp out at the DevilAngel now, there's going to be a looooong line sometime next week.

[Korr]

Hellball?

[Amoenotep]

hellball should insta kill anyone in the zone....EVERYONE

[LinuxPup]

Heh... broken arrow

[Eldaquen]

No need for a stand in line for devil angel. I'll keep Netya'nis around for sentimental reasons, I have already lvled a replacement that in one night of defending pk'd more (incidents not individuals) than Netya'nis has done post wipe with creeping doom alone (not including pk's while in dragon form or those with greater ruin as near dead opponent turns and flees).

[MLoki]

So basically;

just wondering if someone could clarify the rules on creeping doom, as i've heard its not allowed to stack them.
are you allowed to stack them and if so is there a limit?

As far as I know there are no official rules on Creeping Doom... I just ask as a favor that if the server has a decent amount of people on... like say 40+ or so you keep it "down"... like maybe 2-3 max. If there are 15 people on, feel free to spam Creeping Doom. Our new server is considerably faster than our older one, but it obviously has its limits... I'm sure everyone has enjoyed the AI when the server hits capacity.

is it legal to stack them directly on a spawn point or on a transition?

you can't keep killing the same ppl inside the spawn point without intervention from the powers that be.

they are open pvp in the sense that you can run in and kill anyone in it and ppl can't use it to escape combat because they are losing. area takeovers will not take place in bind points. you will not camp players by continuously killing them in bind points, and finally you will not hold a player inside a bind point with no hope of them ever getting out...just because you want an easy tag on your relic .

remember...hit it and quit it. touch and go. kill and move on...when it comes to bind points, play it safe.

So you can't use Creeping Doom to keep players inside a spawn point by continuously killing them but stacking them on other transitions is allowed up to a point. I think that answers most of the questions that were brought up in this thread and hopefully the spell remains usefull after Lokey plays around with the coding a bit.