Creeping Doom

[Amoenotep]

SoV won't let you cast another in the same area....even if you close to the other side of the zone, not just within the same SoV. one of the biggest problems with that stacking was you could effectively force a player to roll a low number to stay stunned indefinately.

Creeping has always stacked, was never changed, had rarely been used until recently. any druid can cast it...any cleric with plant domain can cast it.

its piercing damage, your movement speed is hampered because those little buggers are nipping you in places you'd rather them not be, most of the damage can be negated by stacking heavily on the pierce side.

there are a few spells that can rid you of creeping in a fast way...AoE mords and i'm pretty sure gust of wind can make it all disappear also.

[Korr]

Creeping Doom is a spell that has to be planned to use. You cant just mid combat out a creeping doom or three and have it save you, because youre looking at 1d6, then 2d6 then 4d6. The most d6 a creeping doom can do is 820 d6 without being extended. That is on the 40th round . . . so you would need to plan it pretty perfectly to get someone in the area at that time. Not to mention that most of the damage dealt by creeping doom if not set as a preliminary action will be absorbed by equipment. I used to run through eldas creeping doom on my pure fighter that didnt have a ton of con (nor epic DR feats) that wasnt an earth gen. A little speed and a FoM and youre pretty well in the clear. The spell according to the nwn wiki goes a little funny counting each person as another round (or so it seems). Which means creeping doom CAN be used mid combat if you are absolutely being swarmed, but also consider that the more people taking damage the less each person will take (1000 damage cap).

[Blystos Re]

That was my point.

"Your previous storm has dissipated."

"Your bug friends have moved to a new spot."

[Eldaquen]

Creeping doom, at the moment, is a druids greatest strength and weakness. It is unlike any other spell, even the comparison to SoV meantioned; as similarity is only both being AoE, imo. Arcane casters have a much greater variety of damage orientated offensive spells with few resistances or saves to choose from. Druids on other hand, majority of spells have reflex saves which in a dexer/improved evasion predominate server renders druids other offensive spells completely useless. Creeping doom is a double edge sword. It will kill the caster just as easily as an opponent or ally. Takes planning and timing to execute. Not so with bigbies/IGMS/implosion: rest, cast and repeat, for example. With doom must attempt to cast when melee builds are not bearing down on druid caster, in advance wait 20 rounds before hope to see decent damage output and even then, druid must stay out of it herself.

If your going to change it please make it more pvp effective, like IGMS. Perhaps cast it on a single target it does progressive damage (round 1: 5d6, round 2: 10d6, round 3: 15d6, round 4: 20d6, round 5: 25d6, round 6: 30d6, round 7: 35d6, round 8 40d6, perhaps if extended then round 9: 45d6, round 10: 50d6, round 11: 55d6, round 12: 60d6, round 13: 65d6, round 14: 70d6, round 15: 75d6 and round 16: 80d6) until expires or dispelled. This would make the spell less of AOE headache while leaving druid with viable offensive spell. For those objecting to the damage suggested: as is now is round 1: 1d6 progressing to round 40: 40d6 if extended round 80 (lvl 40 druid): 80d6. This is why it does so much damage that your noticing. To reach 460 damage (lvl 40 druid 40th round at 80d6) druid planned ahead, placed doom in likely spot that someone might walk into and waited 40 rounds and that victem had misfortune of entering. Arcane casters builds do not require such planning or chance, how many IGMS are possible per rest anyway for a wizard with regular, empowered, stilled, and quickened. In comparison: a Lvl 40 wizard, without considering int modifier, could have 5 regular IGMS, 5 stilled IGMS (spell slot one lvl higher), 4 empowered (spell slot 2 lvls higher) and 4 quickened (spelll slot 4 lvls higher) for total of 18 IGMS (per rest) that may be cast within 9 rounds, with auto quicken 3, doing upwards of 1800 damage (no save).

This has not been meantioned so will meantion it, 1.69 upgrade changed the spell. Not sure how but have noticed if stack dooms in same spot if a player walks into only the last one cast will do damage the prior reads 0 damage even if past round 30. Don't know why just something I have noticed with player toons only. Yes if cast and npc's walk into stacked they take full damage, but 1.69 sped up the cap somehow. Again don't know the mechanics but have noticed doom will drop after doing less than 1000 cap if multiple creatures walk into it taking heavy damage. I have seen it drop after doing 170 pts of damage to 4 npc's.

I have refrained from stacking, I am spreading the doom out covering larger areas. Seems ppl have not noticed that fact. Of course to be honest that worked out in Netya'nis favor as by not stacking by avoid whatever 1.69 did to Creeping doom and those pesky SD hasted FoM Monks will at least take damage from one of dooms while running thru them. Honestly, since 1.69 implemented it was in opponets favor for druid to stack dooms, spreading them out over larger area increased chance of doing damage, harder to stay out of, but chance of druid dying to their own increased.

Another point to using doom that is different form SOV, Implosion, IGMS and Bigbies is caster can accidentially kill herself. A properly planned druid can avoid this. A fact I have been reluctant to share stems from spell being resistable. Yes spell penetration feats will reduce that but works against druid as well. I set up Netya'nis without spell penetration. Lothed to share that: but any with high Spell Resist may, by chance roll, survive thru her dooms. Reason why, Druid SR at lvl 40 is 52 which improves her chance of using doom and not accidentially dying to it herself. Any toon set up with high SR will have better than 50% chance of walking thru it. As many of you who object to Doom are Drow or other SR race resisting should be statistically in your favor.

One last point on this subject, thought point of balancing server was so all builds had equal chance. Druids need to rely on creeping doom. But spell is resistable, dispellable, avoidable, takes time to progress to meaningful damage output that in pvp raid makes very difficult to cast and survive long enough to see fruits of casting it. (Netya'nis is lucky to get one off in pvp before having to shift to dragon to survive melee pvp). Druids at 40th lvl rely on being dragon or creeping doom due to other spells being negated by evasion and improved evasion or already changed so will not slay a full health fully buffed opponent no matter how many times cast it. If going to change doom, please consider either increasing saves required vs spells like bombardment or chain lightning, or remove the reflex save altogether.

Disclaimer: did not compare to wizards and arcane caster to ask for nerf to any arcane spell or that class, but merely to request any change to druid to be in balance to those classes.

[frogofpeace]

I think creeping doom is a hell of a lot of fun the way it is. Personally, I wish more AOE spells were not party friendly - that would make wizards use their vaunted intelligence a bit more. It might make for interesting PvM as well, if the monsters were nuking their own.

[Eldaquen]

Additional comment for suggestion if Creeping doom changed to toon specific or 1 target: add so dispellable by dismissal as Bigbies is and only one spell affect per target while spell is ongoing as acid arrow is. Comments on applicable if change so is target specific.

[Eldaquen]

I agree with Frogofpeace. I like the spell as is, previous post was directed if going to change. Based on what I have read, had heard in game...I am afraid the decision was already made to change the spell.

[Eldaquen]

In support for Creeping doom remaining as is: I submit those that find it so unacceptable are the builds that are ill equiped to respond or resist creeping doom. Just as a non-spot/non-listen builds find any SD build unacceptable, out of balance and unfair. Its not the creeping doom or the SD but the perception and dissappointment of the build that never meant to do well against that ability or spell.

[alasteir]

I agree with Eldaquen and Frog,

I think Creeping Doom is fine the way it is now. It gives opponents of druids (in PvP) something to consider. Why burden the devs with this?

alasteir

[LinuxPup]

I haven't had any plans to change it... not sure if Lokey did or not, as this is all news to me. *If* we did change it we'd definitely want to ensure it maintains its usefulness... the only thing I have against creeping doom isn't a balance issue but a performance one... I've seen druids stack ~10 of those things on top of each other... that's 10 heartbeat, on-enter, and on-exit scripts firing which can definitely put a load on the server... especially when there's 50+ people on already.

BTW, does Creeping Doom still cause xp loss in PvP? If so, does it do it every time or just sometimes?

[Eldaquen]

Regarding xp loss: the answer is yes and no. If the druid that cast remains alive, no xp loss. I have noticed that if the druid casting stacks, dies and then someone falls victum there is a chance of xp loss. If dooms are non-stacked I have not notice complaints of xp loss: only stacked after druid has been killed. So perhaps on caster death the spell should expire. I have heard no complaints of xp loss if there is minor overlap of dooms either. The key seems to be if the druid remains alive.

As far as rules for Creeping Doom use: there are none. With that said, Lokey has stated in game in tell that it is rude to stack more than 3 on single spot outside respawn point. I have taken to not stacking trying to spread out, when have done this spell is more effective anyway and have not received complaints of xp loss. Also if succeed in staying alive, able to cast more during long raids. Last time cast about 3 or 4 at a time, shift to dragon, when ran out cast more spread out.

[Korr]

Im not as nice as elda, my cleric (plant domain) has penetration feats ';)

And Im not sure the spell resistance against creeping doom works anyway. I see myself resisting the spell and then taking damage from it.

Also from what the wiki says your calculations for the damage of Creeping Doom is wrong. Its a cumulative output of damage, 1d6, 2d6, 4d6, 7d6, all the way up to max dmage output/expire. So round one is 1, then every round starts a count of the ADDING of d6, add 1d6 (2nd round) add 2d6 (3rd round) add 3d6 (4th round). Which leaves us with at extended Creeping Doom lasting 80 rounds, we see the sum of 1 to 80 + 1

Thats 3241d6 (average damage of 9723 (bring it on G1)). The chances of getting the spell this high are so slim though its not really even worth worrying about.

[MLoki]

Regarding xp loss: the answer is yes and no. If the druid that cast remains alive, no xp loss. I have noticed that if the druid casting stacks, dies and then someone falls victum there is a chance of xp loss. If dooms are non-stacked I have not notice complaints of xp loss: only stacked after druid has been killed. So perhaps on caster death the spell should expire. I have heard no complaints of xp loss if there is minor overlap of dooms either. The key seems to be if the druid remains alive.

As far as rules for Creeping Doom use: there are none. With that said, Lokey has stated in game in tell that it is rude to stack more than 3 on single spot outside respawn point. I have taken to not stacking trying to spread out, when have done this spell is more effective anyway and have not received complaints of xp loss. Also if succeed in staying alive, able to cast more during long raids. Last time cast about 3 or 4 at a time, shift to dragon, when ran out cast more spread out.

Actually the "rule" falls under the PvP guidelines which aren't specific to Creeping Doom. You can't stop a player from leaving an area by continuously killing them. So blocking the only exit to a spawn point that they are bound at keeps them from leaving. If you PK them more then three times in this manner then you may run into trouble with the DMs.

[Korr]

Spawn points are open game these days, as well you can claim an area. Ive seen no restrictions on claiming areas.

[Amoenotep]

you can't keep killing the same ppl inside the spawn point without intervention from the powers that be.

they are open pvp in the sense that you can run in and kill anyone in it and ppl can't use it to escape combat because they are losing. area takeovers will not take place in bind points. you will not camp players by continuously killing them in bind points, and finally you will not hold a player inside a bind point with no hope of them ever getting out...just because you want an easy tag on your relic .

remember...hit it and quit it. touch and go. kill and move on...when it comes to bind points, play it safe.