Defender of the relic rules and guidlines player feedback

[TheEdge]

Feel free if playing say a TC toon to run it to NC if you want and cap it. The basic point of all of this is that if you pick up a relic, you are capping that relic or die trying.

(and yes we will be watching for those that think that we can't tell the differance between a true PK and a "hey kill me real quick so you can recap the relic i just took in order to exploit the point system)

[Rainswept]

Don't get me wrong, the relic event does deserve a nice reward, I just think the statue is more fitting for those who actually defend the relic day in day out. It doesn't have to take anything away from the weekend warriors and the statue for getting people on for a few heats. Both are good and fun, but I think actually defending the relic deserves a reward as well.

So you are saying quantity over quality, right?

I'm saying exactly the opposite. You run an event in heats and whomever can get the most people playing at that specific window of time gets the win. There's no claim of "quality" in getting a bunch of people to free up a couple hours at a specific time. Working to keep the relics day after day, week after week deserves a more permanent symbol of recognition IMO, and I think the title "Defenders of the Relic" more correctly describes that.

To reiterate: I don't want to be seen as disparaging the relic event. The thing is always fun, and it looks like Gorm is really busting his [censored] to get it to be as good as possible. I even have some small hope that the standard practice of Nerfing AO/RK and banning our players immediately before the event starts might be discontinued... All I'm saying is that it's not the only thing worth real rewards like the statue.

[Bargeld]

I'll just say this with regards to 'real rewards'... during one of the recent periods that SL had the relics for 2 days I took a drow toon from level 16 to level 30. It was a lucky couple of days that the SL/MA guys played a lot and we were able to defend and keep the relic and also get some good groups going. That's 329,000 xp total. Without those relics, I would have only earned 214,000. That would have taken me from 16 to 25. That is a very real advantage. Those who can hold the relics earn their bonus... but there is a very real exception to this also.

During every day play, multi boxing is legal. SL teams of 4 and 5 skilled players with an array of toons are forced to defend against similar numbers of enemy players (4 or 5) who attack with 10 or more toons. Drop the player numbers down to the average day and you get 2 or 3 SL players having to raid or defend against 6 or 7 toons. This is why AO/RK have held the relics. Add to this fact that while holding the relics, these same players have the ability to go and level their own toons with their own 1 and 2 man groups of 5 or 6 toons and you should be able to see why this is an exception to my statement. This isn't earning their bonus, it's simply abusing the grace bestowed by the managing community. That deserves no reward IMO.

Apologies for taking this to the next level of off-topic-ness, but it is my honest response to a relatively on-topic post. I'd be glad to take this to another topic/post at any point.

[frogofpeace]

yeah i think the benefit is ... you get an xp bonus. Maybe it could be renamed "Defender Bonus"

[mining]

yeah i think the benefit is ... you get an xp bonus. Maybe it could be renamed "Defender Bonus"

Bargeld is completely right, but you should take pity on those of us in TC/NC. Most of our players work, or actually do something for 3/4 of the day. We do not have hours upon hours to play '5 of us vs 3x2+2x3 of you', and thats a best case scenario. I think I've levelled... once? twice? with the XP bonus, and thats been the full 35% once. 35% is extremely underestimated.

Here's my maths. Say at level 30 Sancreed gets 200 xp per moleman, and it takes him (and his clerical friend) 40 minutes to clear 1 lap of king and 40ish molemen. Let us say king is 3 molemen of XP

Now, level 30-40 is 345,000 XP.

If by level 40 I am getting ~ 50 xp a molemen, and my killing speed isn't rising too significantly, then:

WITH xp bonus, I need to kill 4885 molemen.

Without, I need to kill 3665 molemen.

Now, thats a damn huge difference, 26% as it turns out for a 35% xp boost.

[Rufio]

Winning the relic event = quality

Having the relic all hours of the day when most people are off doing real life things = quantity

Although if you really want that statue I will gladly trade it for your relic bonus.

[Rainswept]

I phrased it poorly, perhaps. What I'd be pleased with is something a bit more permanent and visible, even if not game altering like the XP bonus. The bonus isn't broken, and I've not heard anyone complain about it, nor do I mean to imply that should be changed in any way. Having said that, this practice of rewarding a bunch of people for being available for a 3 hour window is fun, but it sure as hell isn't quality. It was way different back when the relic war was days if not a week long, and winning it meant forgoing your xp runs, your gear runs, and anything else you want to do in game in favor of a big damn "Relic War". The little skirmishes are cute, but you can pretty much log on, count guild tags on the player list, and know the winner without bothering to have the event, and that's weak IMO.

[TheEdge]

Woot…this one went off topic!!!

That being said let me touch on a couple of points and then let’s move back to the topic at hand. The relic event is only a week off!!!
When it comes to heats or not it would be important to remember that this is first and foremost and “event”. (A set chain of actions sanctioned and supported by the staff). While this type of support is necessary to facilitate everyday events as well as this one, it is important to remember that this of all the events is specifically “player run” and the staff is present only to keep the peace and help insure that all runs smoothly. Due to this being a “player run” event and the size of such an endeavor, a longer time frame is paramount to facilitating such an undertaking. In order to insure that DM staff is present to field on the spot questions as well as decisions, (heated) events or planned “battle times” were required. To put this into equations that everyone can understand think back to wars of the past in RL. While these battles or “wars” took place over weeks/months/even years, they were not continuous battles but staged events that both sides would mount a planned attack, fight their battle, then fall back to regroup and re-plan.
When it comes to the “defender of the relic statue” and whether this is a true representation of an award for the event I would ask that a few things be taken into consideration. Again this is an event. One that was pre-planned and in this case “plenty” of forewarning for prep time and planning. The “statue” is a symbol of who was successful during the “event”. Beyond that not just the event winners are rewarded for their efforts. After the event all are allowed the opportunity to voice their opinions and vote on who within each faction involved showed the most merit and each of those winners are rewarded separately.
I think a good point was mentioned when it was stated that during day to day relic battles and warfare that those that hold the relics are rewarded with “Exp Bonus” opportunities. This is only awarded if relics are held. Beyond that a perminate symbol of honor ship on a daily basis and beyond “is” in fact present in our realm. The counter in Avendale Crossing is always running. This counter is only reset when and if the staff/Gods make the decision to send all of the relic’s home. If this has not occurred then the counter just keeps on counting. If I have not been mistaken in some of the banter back and forth, the point was not that the statue is such a great prize but that it is a symbol of success defending ones relic. This again is to represent that a team/ faction was successful in dominating the “Event” which no matter what some say, in my opinion, is a “great” task upon itself and should be commended. If a source of bragado on a daily basis is needed or wanted, again, feel free to refer to the counter in Ave Crossing.
Long winded as that was, as well I am sure of stepping on some toes (I know that any time a DM steps out they will never win a popularity contest) I do ask that we all attempt to keep an open mind about these things. That being said while I do not intend on practicing censorship I do ask that we remain “on topic” for this thread and if further discussions are warranted please feel free to begin a new thread for this.

[burrahobbit]

Don't get me wrong, the relic event does deserve a nice reward, I just think the statue is more fitting for those who actually defend the relic day in day out. It doesn't have to take anything away from the weekend warriors and the statue for getting people on for a few heats. Both are good and fun, but I think actually defending the relic deserves a reward as well.

So you are saying quantity over quality, right?

I even have some small hope that the standard practice of Nerfing AO/RK and banning our players immediately before the event starts might be discontinued...

I'm sry, i cant let this junk go past without commenting. The reason AO/RK players, or any other player for that matter, is banned is because they are exploiting, cheating, breaking the rules, or being morons to the DM/Devs. Maybe the folks in RK/AO shouldn't do any of these things and they wont get banned right before events.....

[Rufio]

Except everyone is out to get AO and RK, including all the DMs and Devs, so he does have a point.

/sarcasm

[Tsavong]

I have played in quite a number of defender of the relic statue events from when they were week long wars, which seemed to consist of hours of noting happing broken up with some fighting. To the last weekend long event when it was split into 3 rounds or heats and I have to say even though I did not win the last one, I think MA and SL were last, it was probably the most fun I've had with one because the pvp was so good. It was not by any means cute little skirmishes. I remember some times during the 2nd round some huge three way battles in NC.

Any way the the three round event seemed to work well, after round one it was still anyone game, About half way between round two MA and SL lost so with nothing left to loose we decided to go all out and attack the two other factions who were still in it, NC and RK, which was great fun. So by the end of round two there were just two factions left who could win leaving round three to decide it.

[Rainswept]

EDIT:

Nevermind. I've sidetracked Gorm's thread far enough, and I'll send my angry rant in PMs to burra and Rufio rather than dragging everyone into it.

[Shhhhhhh]

If the gods favour NC toons, maybe you should make some?

[Kromix]

Woot…this one went off topic!!!

I Vote for post to be relocated to the Off topic forums!

[Rainswept]

If the gods favour NC toons, maybe you should make some?

I have a level 40 [FoN] toon, my friend. I have lived on both sides of that fence, and experienced which has greener grass. Hell for that matter I was in [RR] before we became so closely associated with PWnD, and my experiences since that has happened are so vastly different I don't really expect you to believe them, if I hadn't lived them I wouldn't either.

FWIW, while there are a couple of players in other factions I don't particularly like, in general I believe the player base on NS4 is populated by good peeps. I certainly don't bear any grudge towards the FoN guys, they treated me very well, and I only left because our factions went to war with each other during a time I was away from the game.

I complain against what I honestly believe is unjust, and I have many many reasons for that particular conclusion.