Nerfalicious

[Bargeld]

We don't know how much it will suck. But we'll tell you how much we think it will . . . at great length and in much detail.

Best EVER.

[maibs]

so how high do my characters saves need to be before it'll be viable on NS4 ?
should probably get that known before I plan out anymore builds.

we'll start with fort, that has to be at least 48 to deal with the implode spammers

hell I haven't seen an implode spammer bother with trying any other spell, hearing things like "ohh yeah he got me on the fourth implode" ummm.....
how many does he pack ?
does he pack anything else ?
me and two friends got repeatedly raped by implode spamming, no other effect was even attempted just "implode, implode, implode" why ? because it's well known that there's no immunity, even if I had a fort save of 60 I could still roll a 1 and die
nah nothing overpowered about that, I'm sure it takes plenty skill to mash the "implode" hotkey on the keyboard.
wouldn't want to take that away, someone might have to learn to play.
you know, since we're happy to let people spam abilities that kill you instantly and all
what else are we heading for
will and reflex of 48 too ?

sounds neat

[Fezz]

Well ill way in on this about now, and shoot me if i go off thread a little, but a few posts up somebody felt like bringing more shifter shapes towards the nerf bat as he put it.

1st i would like to say that at times its extremely hard to work out what the intentions are on this server behind certain changes that have gone about over the years. While i understand you guys doing the do, do not have to tells us which direction your taking the entire server towards, and what the ultimate goal is for all your hard work, i would like to put it this way.

Seeing as i coach an under 12 teamsport here downunder, one of my favourite things to say to kids who whine and complain about a referee's performance is this - Without the referee there is no game ! but its a triple edge sword. Without the coach there aint no team, and without the players there is no game either.

2nd. On shifters and particularly undead form, yes im biased my word. When i discovered shifters it breathed new life into this server for me. They are extremely fun to play. Also and you can call it coincidence until your cows come home, but i smashed a dm lvl 40 insta toon and 3 of his mates in the SL more than once and ran practically all the way back to av getting attacked the whole way the night before you destroyed the ac on it. Way to big a coincidence for me, also you never even bothered to post in the log that you hit them with the nerf bat for the second time, we were just left to log in and wonder where all our AC had gone - smells rotten to me big time. Yep i crit you for over 300 (funny you had no shield), yep i had the right armor on (because i can see what your using), yep i have disarm - Maybe cause ive made four of the things before i got it right. BTW not one of you was a cleric or i wouldnt have made it out of the SL tunnel even.

3rd and final. While i realize that the people that defend shifter shapes 99% of the time play those shapes, the people that ask for stuff to get hit with the nerf bat are ALWAYS the ones that get their rear-ends handed to them by a great build. Reminds me of how the people without mages want mages, or how the people in RK were so sad that they could only play dwarves, so you let them have gnomes too and made them several new subraces. I dont think after all the nerfing like no monk ac on kobolds etc etc etc that those shapes need even more nerf's. See the thing is you've created a VERY challenging and fun server. But then you have gone and nerfed many many things fron classes to spells to one prc only - its a massive list that are virging on making certain classes useless (While over empowering others)and very close to unplayable or so difficult to play that your going to get a rash of some classes and relegate others to harper scout like proportions.

Anyways thats my rant, read it or don't, lock it whatever, i care not. See you in game.

[cRaZy8or5e]

we went from clerics/mages handing out blanket immunity to clerics/mages buffing others saves to help with dc's they never had to make before because they were immune. how does that nerf your cleric or make him less important?

I'm having a real hard time not making flippant remarks. So what he's discussing is not the nerfs over all but the nerfs to clerics. He's speaking in faction specific terms. That's why we all love you tep, cuz you're so caring. Let me explain in the hopes that maybe you could step outside your shoes as omniscient DM tep and see things from the perspective of us ignorant NC slugs. NC only has bards and clerics. Bards are still pretty uber despite the nerf to their song. Clerics are excellent buffing machines and in my opinion, you need both to have an effective party. However 4 well played sorc/wizzes are a match for any 4 bards or clerics and then some, before these changes and before the wipe. With these changes you've given them a leg up. Anybody paying attention to the uberness of Hellball now-a-days, or the ability to timestop and strip enemies of buffs, or the sheer magnitude of feats that a wizard gets or the amazing amount of spells that a sorc gets. *best birdcage voice* HELLO!!!

Blanket immunities? Since when does an easily strippable lvl 1 and lvl 3 spell constitute blanket immunities. There were things in place to take these away, they're called greater dispelling and mordenkainiens disjunction. We don't even get to use mords in NC, not without metagaming anyway, and even then its at the level of the scroll, not the level of the caster so except for the buffs that it autostrips you might as well use a greater dispel. Don't get me wrong using scrolls is a highly respected tactic in pvp, oh wait, well ok, so its not, but at least with scrolls you can cast really fast--wait no, nothing like an autoquickened caster.

Yeah sorry Tep, this really looks like the smelly end of the stick. You can tell us that we're all making much of nothing, and Linux can tell people that they should build better, but that stick still stinks to high heaven and the brown stuff you keep shoveling at us instead of reasoned and informative responses isn't helping your arguments any. Wait those aren't arguments, those are your typical "I'm high imperious DM tep, and I know more than you! I'll write as little as possible and be as caustic and belittling as possible and maybe they'll go away!"

How's that working out for you by the way?

[Amoenotep]

well...i am high and imperious, thanks

and as far as knowing the info. if you can't see that a char has built his whole build around a single spell, which in turn makes him useless when he's done spouting it, it gotcha

if you don't know that implosion is not a death spell, has never been a death spell, is not a necro spell, has never been a necro spell, and does not "kill" you. i gotcha

[--Ashe--]

While we are using logic concerning our dislike of spells giving immunity now, lets add a couple arcane to the list, we wouldn't want our resident mages to get by without checking saves either since thats what we are all concerned about:

Shield: Level 1, immunity to magic missile and IGMs
Minor Globe of Invuln: Level 4, Immunity to level 3 and lower.
Globe of Invuln: Level 6, Immunity to level 4 and lower (bye bye ice storm)
Shadow Shield: Level 7, Immunity to Necro and Instant Death

Why are the Globes on the list you ask... because the mage never has to make a save against any other spell since he's automatically immune. So much for allowing the use of more spells by other casters eh?

Not to even bring up the epic level spell protections and the mantles... oy what an immunity nightmare.

[Brionn_Unbound]

These changes would be a little more palatable if they were a little broader in scope and more in keeping with the style and flavor of D+D and NWN. To use the justification that the innate level of the spell should determine its potency ignores the nature of the different magics of NWN. Divine and Arcane magics are from 2 different sources and each awards power differently. If the staff is really that interested in changing this fundemental element of the game, it would be nice to see it done sweepingly and not tailored to a handfull of spells. Alter all spells and feats that grant immunities and make everything a bonus to saving throws. I feel anything less comes off as pandering to a target audience and not true game balancing.

[mgrjebbo]

Idea- Dont post a change in the changelog until some time has passed after its been put in.

That way you know peoples reactions are to how the change works on the server and not just the changelog itself.

Seems to me you would want to try something first before forming an opinion.

[--Ashe--]

Seems to me you would want equitable treatment across the board instead of to a single class.

[Amoenotep]

anyway..i think we've all had a good say in this one way or the other. all changes are watched to see if they can work or need adjustments.