New Players

[Shadowalker]

every new toon should have some form of both ranged and mele.. use ranged to start.. keep in mind things like.. skeletons have dr vrs slash and piercing.. goblins have poor eyesight.. you can kill them from beyond thier range of perception, carefull though cuase thier range of perception is just a cppl meters less than the furthest range at which your recive Xp for the kill.

If the jobs happened to mention the types of physical dmg your be recieving on the quests.. it would help a new player to make the wise choice that vetrans take for granted.

Twig advises all players new to server but not necesarrly to the game to make a cleric first. Availble in all factions, the buffs cover the huge holes in gear. And by the time they reach level 30+ they should have learned about the servers unique rules and made contacts to help with a new toon. The old cleric.. retire to potions and Raise Dead scroll crafter, as well as other cleric crafts. The time spent on the first learning toon.. is not wasted.. it helps support all the toons to come from that player.

[frogofpeace]

I agree with DD - starting out is too tough, especially since it's very difficult to find a lowbie party around faction cities. It's marginally easier once you can get to Avendell, where the whole server population has access. Honestly, I haven't not power levelled a toon to 10 in forever, and that frustration is why.

Good advice from Twig, sure, but still the worst kind of grind, IMO. By far the easiest toons to level at low levels are those with some form of summon spell. An idea - any way to provide a henchman or summons token to low level players? Some kind of faction-related hench would be neat, but even the magical chicken or wolf would make things a whole lot more palatable, and who doesn't love the celestial cow? No-one, that's who.

[MrAsimov]

So far as I can tell the major problem people have with low levels is the speed at which leveling occurs. There is a huge unwillingness to kill what you are actually able to kill because the xp you receive for it slows leveling. Anyone willing to take a little more time and care in the way they level should be able to do so without dying too much. That being said, there is somewhat of a learning curve the first time through an area, but dying beyond first and perhaps second level should still not occur that often if one doesn't rush into everything and takes a bit of time to think. There is also the fact that at level one, even at ecl 3, it only takes a few kills to make up for lost xp from dying. Not truly much of a struggle unless you really, really take dying as a blow to your ego. As with every other level parties make everything faster, but with all the power leveling people do they are usually hard to find at low levels.

All of the above is from the point of view of someone who, seemingly unlike most of the server, actually doesn't mind lower levels in the slightest.

[Rufio]

Low levels go fast, but you are pretty much stuck grinding out the first map or two near your faction city for a while, which is what I don't like about it. New players might not be so enthusiastic about not being able to adventure much. The problem might be at level 1 or 2 where you can die really easily from a fluke critical or something. Some factions are harder than others at level 1 too. The undead in NC can be brutal to take on at level 1, while my experiences leveling in MA and TC have been much smoother. At least jobs give you some kind of low-level goal to work towards.

I think the level grind is ns4's biggest flaw really. Reaching level 30 isn't so bad, but after that everything slows down to a crawl. I don't like to think about how much of my life I have wasted mindlessly grinding out exp. The last time I reached 40 on a build that I leveled on my own was last December.

[Elagneros]

Anyone else thing the low levels 1-7 or so are a little rough? Ive started characters in AO, TC, RK and now NC and dying seems a to happen alot.

Perhaps some help is needed at these low levels to keep new players from getting too frustrated?

I think it depends partially on the enemy types encountered in the starting areas.

I learned this server starting on LA-based toons. Now starting LA toons had a nice variety of enemies to choose from, there were the rats and beetles in the sewers and the goblins just outside the city, and some weak undead at night. Both offer roughly the same XP, but the goblins also have a nice variety of potions and disposable magic which are a nice little bonus for the starting toons. Here's how the other factions stack up:

TC: mostly goblins to start with. This is the same group of goblins that were available to the LA players. I'd say TC has probably the best overall selection of starting mobs.

NC: Undead. These guys are fairly tough starting opponents, partcularly the archers and maybe infantry which are just outside the city. Most of the basic skeletons and undead animals only do 1-2 damage per hit, but the archers occasionally crit, and because bows are x3 crit damage, they can one shot a new player on a lucky roll. Now NC tends to have tougher toons, it's focoused on clerics and paladins, so they will tend to have higher starting hp and AC, but a bad roll can still kill a new player. NC does have the secret passage that leads to the outskirts of Melencia and while that offers eaiser leveling on goblins, it's not something a new player is likely to know about -- and that player probably has to get through the undead gauntlet first.

AO: Vermin infestation in the city itself. Rats and beetles aren't particularly difficult unless you get swarmed, but AO suffers from having no safe spots in the outdoor parts of the city itself. AO has a sewer system like LA did and outside the city has goblins like LA/TC. However, there are a few tougher enemies thrown in the outside mix like hobgoblins, krenshars and wererats, so it's a little tougher.

MA: Vermin outside the city and pigmies with krenshars and wererats thrown into the mix. Not particularly difficult unless you're being careless on a mage or rogue.

RK/SL: Both have the same starting mix, vermin and molemen. The molemen are a little tougher than goblins and pigmies, but not terribly so.

It's not too bad, but if any adjustments need to be made it should be like this:

• Expand the drop tables for molemen and pigmies to include the same variety of disposable drops goblins have at the same rate. Those items are fairly useful to a new player, but the only drops MA/SL/RK noobs typically get is money. Maybe add it to the basic skeletons too for the NC noobs.
• Remove skeleton archers from Daeron Outskirts and Shara Valley or at least limit their spawns to nighttime. I've seen them do around 20 points of damage on a crit to a 1st level character with only 12 hp.
• Get rid of spawns in Sleeth Compound. This way noobs can at least travel to a shop without getting attacked, or worse getting caught in Chirrem's breath weapon when he spots a rat.
• Lower the maximum number of spawns from the lower level encounters, some of them spawn quite a few enemies for a 1st level player. Rats and beetles only do 1 point of damage, but if you get surrounded by half a dozen of them, they can quickly wear you down, particularly when you have a low starting hp.

The amount of low level grind really depends on how well you know the server and how much gear you can transfer to a new toon. Being able to give items to a new toon you rolled up from an old one really helps the leveling process. It also helps if you know the good places for leveling (for example when I'm soloing, I may forgo higher XP mobs for lower ones if those lower ones can be killed more quickly, pose less of a threat and spawn more often). It's not how much XP you get each kill, it's the rate of xp gained over time that's important.

For me, one of the worst humps in leveling is mid teens, particularly level 15. That's right before a toon can start using level 16 gear. The level 16 gear typically has keen on weapons (more damage from more frequent crits) and regeneration on the better armor (reduces need for healing over time). But around levels 14-15 the easier enemies offer less or no xp, while the better mobs are pretty tough even with good level 13 equips. Epic hasn't been a bad grind so far, because there's often a lot of parties avavilable for those levels. Soloing though is much tougher especially on a weak build.

[mining]

From what I've found throughout all levelling ever is that 1 to about 3 can be rough, for example on a finesseless dexxer - but generally I haven't had major issues starting out of any faction. Probably the roughest one at level 1 for me is SL, but thats just because I've only made drow melee out of it, and drow melee tend to have poor HP and slow levelling.

The really big levelling hump for me comes from around 25 (if ECL 3) to 30 (every other ECL) through to about 40. At this stage it really is just an endless grind, seemingly.

Edit to add:

You can grab Chainmail, a club, and a large shield for 420 gold. Pick up 8 heal kits from elven and you're ready to roll with +7 AC and 1d6 damage.

[DeputyDog]

Some good ideas and comments.

LA was always the faction of choice for a new player. Since it is closed we dont really cater to them anymore.

I think a few quick things we could do would be the following:

Start the player with a little more gp. maybe 1000 to buy whatever basic gear they want.
Start the player with say 10 heal kits? or put heal kits on the quartermaster for sale.

Thin out the newbie spawns so their arnt so many in the areas surrounding each start area. 3-4 rats is deadly.

Give an xp bonus for completing a job level.

RK - Make a shortcut from the start area to the outskirts.. Portal or something.. one way. That walk take forever if you do it over and over. Or move the shard and npcs to the southern part of the map so its a quick walk to the exit.

NC Thin the spawns and thin the npcs in the outskirts areas. They constantly kill the mobs before I have a chance to.

TC - Goblins are tought at level 1, so the spawns may need thinned or looked into.

Going to do some play thrus on SL/MA now and look at some ideas.

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As for the grind around level 15, I think we just need more areas for that range.
Perhaps NS City could be weakened to give a good palce for that. The npcs are all 16-19 range right now but could have some gear/abilitys downgraded to get them right at 16 and thinned out to make a nice leveling ground.


We can also beef up the sewers and maybe the ice road bandits to give a good 10-15 area as well.

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Last idea for now would be to put quick travel to Avendell from each newbie area for say levl 5 and up. and leave give 5-10s some good areas surrounding Avendell.

[Shadowalker]

More gold would help them to start.

The mundane merchant could also give stern advice. Such as for TC "When hunting the goblins, remember they have poor eyesight. Best to carry ranged (sling is optimal as you can still ues a shield) and mele weapons. Attack the goblins from a distance first, you can kill a few before they notice you, if your out of thier range of sight. Switch to mele if they close on you. Melencia Forest east of the settlement has guards you can retreat to if you get overwellemed."

That is basicly part of the advice I give new players in TC, and aside from the details, can be implmented in other factions as well.

I like the hencmen idea, though that would involve the most dev work.

[frogofpeace]

A shortcut to Avendell at 5 or so would be very useful as well, again with maybe advice from an NPC in the faction city. It's a long haul with lots of twists and turns from Daeron to Avendell - either you go through Melencia, or have to run past a bunch of Disciples.

[Amoenotep]

the reason no easy transport from home cities to avendel was never put in at the begining was the thought behind exploring your faction and getting to know your home first and foremost...i believe.

[mining]

Did a few tests with a straight recommended button fighter. With my 500 picked up a chainmail, large shield and longsword. Would be nice to have ~350 more so I could get Tower and Platemail, but compromises are ok.

Walked out into a spawn of 15 goblins, said "screw it" and tried it. Killed 3 or 4 before going out in a blaze of glory. Net gain: 80 or so XP. Was funny.
Walked back out, took them a few at a time, killed about 10 without issue. 18 AC at level 1 is nice, and str based means you can kill 'em fairly fast.

After one or two drops I was ready to roll, self sustained off heal kit drops. Got level 2 after about 15 minutes worth of playing - cleave feat, time to stomp. Logged off after I got halfway to three - died once off a rough spawn of bugbears, but that was my own stupid fault.

[Amoenotep]

TC is an easy faction

[Bargeld]

Lvl 15 = Top of the mtn, mezzoloths, ordean clan caves, snake pit (failure imo), gnoll pits.

The worst part about xp at NS city is Ghaele. He has II, Ethereal Vision, and DC 25 or something color spray vs death. Not very 16-19 CRish

[mining]

Lvl 15 = Top of the mtn, mezzoloths, ordean clan caves, snake pit (failure imo), gnoll pits.

The worst part about xp at NS city is Ghaele. He has II, Ethereal Vision, and DC 25 or something color spray vs death. Not very 16-19 CRish

Snake Pit is just about doable as a paladin, CoT, cleric, ranger, bard, etc. with neutralize poison. Just annoying, is all.
Re: NS, I like levelling evasionless toons there instead of FD. Could probably use a CR bump.

[Daral0085]

After building in TC, NC and MA, I can say that I always move my lvl 1 toons to TC for leveling both because it's easier, to group up with more players, and to take advantage of handy TC buff clerics. Goblins so much easier than the skellies, plus the ghasts/ghouls/etc will put all sorts of poisons and diseases on you when you have low saves, which is annoying. MA seemed ok, but not really worth staying there past about level 7 compared to the mega-xp you can get in giant mtn.