Favored Class Diversity

Lorkar1 · Post by **Lorkar1** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:17 pm

Might the powers that be take a look at maybe adding a few more races so there is more diversity?
The breakdown of races favored classes is as follows:

Wizard: 6
Fighter: 6
Rogue: 3
Barbarian: 3
Monk: 2
Cleric: 1
Druid: 1
Paladin: 1
Ranger: 1
Sorcerer: 1
Bard: 0

This does not take into account Human or Half-Elf since any class is favored.

Maybe add 1 race to each class with only one.
I don't see bard getting any since that was asked about a year ago and was denied.
If this is to be looked at the ECL should be considered as well, ie; cleric one race, drow ECL3

You know what they say variety is the spice of life.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:40 am

Kenders make good Bards, although it isn't their Favored Class.

Lorkar1 · Post by **Lorkar1** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:26 pm

Its not really about what races are good at what. There are plenty of races that are good for many classes. Its just that lately everyones talking about balance and tweaking and this illustrates how out of whack some things are. Now granted, some things are beyond dev control ie; hardcoding. But this is an issue that is well within their limits and given what changes I have seen recently and in such a short period of time this seems like it would be a small undertaking. I have seen more than a few suggestions in the past that would fit the bill.

Post by **LinuxPup** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:27 pm

Well this is the Ideas and Suggestions forum, so if you have any ideas for new subraces, give them. If they're not super, over-the-top powerful, I'll consider them. The Lorekeeper Dwarf wasn't, which is why I implemented it.

Lorkar1 · Post by **Lorkar1** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:06 pm

OK, is it possible to have an ECL4? I know this thread wasnt about higher ECL's but the thought just popped into my head. Now all I have to do is dig up that Doc. I saw it a while ago with about 300 races on it.

Gornickthy · Post by **Gornickthy** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:50 pm

I would like to see faction specific races. I think this has been brought up before, but I still like the idea. It would give a little more flavor into selecting a faction other than what the prestige class is for the faction.

Also seeing Shadow Dancers removed from the game entirely would probably be a good idea too. Talk about pure cheese. It would bring the rogue back into function and actually make people use the hide and move silently skills as they were intended. Of course I expect flames for this idea since people are to use to the idea of cheese over actually playing skills, but still it is a good idea and is simply my opinion.

Post by **AllAmerican** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:01 pm

While we are talkin about cheese, lets talk PM's, Paladins, Sorcs, Wizards, Fighters, Rogues, Bards, RDD's and most cheese of all Harper Scouts.

From what I have seen, cheese = something that someone builds well that ya cant beat every single fight.

Build better to defend against the threat, or dont.
SD's can be beat, just as any build can.

golem · Post by **golem** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:40 am

Ive noticed uve left put barbarions, but im not sure why besides the mega lack of ac there very good builds

Gornickthy · Post by **Gornickthy** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:28 pm

AllAmerican wrote:While we are talkin about cheese, lets talk PM's, Paladins, Sorcs, Wizards, Fighters, Rogues, Bards, RDD's and most cheese of all Harper Scouts.

From what I have seen, cheese = something that someone builds well that ya cant beat every single fight.

Build better to defend against the threat, or dont.
SD's can be beat, just as any build can.

Lets see.. PM = a class that is immune to crits...compared to the SD = a class that can pretty much hide from anything and appear, strike, and re-hide before any action can be done. Please... no comparison there. Yes SD = pure cheese since the only way to combat one is to build precisely to combat one. Sure it can be done.. it doesn't make it any less cheese.

Build better? Wow a new concept there!!! Thats what people tend to say who really have no REAL input on the subject or have a clue as how to approach something that actually takes thought. How original.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:55 am

here's one..if you want to complain about subrace options, come up with good subraces. its one thing to throw stuff out and complain, its something entirely different to come up with a solution that works in most ways you need it to.

as for my thoughts on favored class bonus, there really isn't any help there most times anyway. sometimes the best suited subraces doesn't have that class favored..you just run with it.

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:21 pm

lol... the LAST think I ever look at when deciding on a class/race/build is the favored class. - if you're dealing with multiple classes, the favored one doesn't really factor much in except a tiny xp boost once and a while.

It was a big deal before (and may be on other nwn servers) the changes -- on ns4 now, you can dual-class on any race without a 20% penalty.

If there is ever a 'bard' or another 'cleric' oriented race, I'd probably only use it if it had bonus spell slots or some major benefit for choosing it, just a +2 to a valid stat, a few points in perform and some extra xp on some levelups isn't in itself enough for me. I'd rather make a bard with a race that has 45 SR, or DR darkness/light aura, etc...

Post by **AllAmerican** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:43 pm

Gornickthy wrote:Build better? Wow a new concept there!!! Thats what people tend to say who really have no REAL input on the subject or have a clue as how to approach something that actually takes thought. How original.

No it is what the people say that are sick of hearing the crying about situations that can be handled with a build.
I have had an Anti SD build, I have always built to keep an eye on them. Is part of the game, and always has been. I had a SD/Rogue/Monk that has his arse handed to him many of times, because someone knew how to combat it. I also have a PaleMaster that when hit with a sneak attack, it does minimal damage. There are clerics out there, there are dragon shapes out there, clairaudiance/clairvoyance, true seeing, amplify. Take your pick, just dont complain about something because it is not going your way.

Build better.

Gornickthy · Post by **Gornickthy** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:04 pm

AllAmerican wrote: No it is what the people say that are sick of hearing the crying about situations that can be handled with a build.
I have had an Anti SD build, I have always built to keep an eye on them. Is part of the game, and always has been. I had a SD/Rogue/Monk that has his arse handed to him many of times, because someone knew how to combat it. I also have a PaleMaster that when hit with a sneak attack, it does minimal damage. There are clerics out there, there are dragon shapes out there, clairaudiance/clairvoyance, true seeing, amplify. Take your pick, just dont complain about something because it is not going your way.

Build better.

First of all.. DM or not get a clue. I was not "crying" because things were not "going my way" but rather making an observation and providing my opinion in hopes that someone may actually use their brains on the issue. I have SD builds and can build against SD builds just as well. The bottom line is the SD is broken in NS4..aka SD4, and I have seen it fixed on other servers where the SD's were given additional skills and yet "special" builds were not necessary to deal with them. If anything it is an allowable exploit by the NS staff. Try to address the issue and use some intelligence and talent rather than always hide behind the "build better" crap and trying to flame anyone who tries to post positive and constructive posts on the forums.

Post by **AllAmerican** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:35 pm

Gornickthy wrote:
AllAmerican wrote: No it is what the people say that are sick of hearing the crying about situations that can be handled with a build.
I have had an Anti SD build, I have always built to keep an eye on them. Is part of the game, and always has been. I had a SD/Rogue/Monk that has his arse handed to him many of times, because someone knew how to combat it. I also have a PaleMaster that when hit with a sneak attack, it does minimal damage. There are clerics out there, there are dragon shapes out there, clairaudiance/clairvoyance, true seeing, amplify. Take your pick, just dont complain about something because it is not going your way.

Build better.
First of all.. DM or not get a clue. I was not "crying" because things were not "going my way" but rather making an observation and providing my opinion in hopes that someone may actually use their brains on the issue. I have SD builds and can build against SD builds just as well. The bottom line is the SD is broken in NS4..aka SD4, and I have seen it fixed on other servers where the SD's were given additional skills and yet "special" builds were not necessary to deal with them. If anything it is an allowable exploit by the NS staff. Try to address the issue and use some intelligence and talent rather than always hide behind the "build better" crap and trying to flame anyone who tries to post positive and constructive posts on the forums.

I have a clue or 2 believe it or not, I have been around this mod for many of years. Still I see the SD's are the downfall to everything excuse as null and void, they can be beat. Why would you nerf them? If anything they need to have a bit more done to them to make them a more playable class.

Feel free to hand out some ideas on how to do this without taking the whole class and throwing it in the trash as you stated in your first post. Use that guild you have and brainstorm some ideas, and come up with something. The staff is always open for legitimate ideas.

Dont just post a complaint, try to come up with a fix for that complaint. The devs are great at fixing stuff, but sometimes they have their hands full, and having a direction helps them out.

Feel free to catch me in game, and we can talk about this real time, I feel it is alot better way to hash out differences, and make better points.

Thorac · Post by **Thorac** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:29 am

i have an idea about drow, they are ecl3 but the major problem is they have a darkness token but can't see in the dark. Is there anyway to add uv to the token that last the same as the darkness 1\hour per lvl i think it is. Just silly to be a race that lives in the dark but cant see in darkness.