Divine Might

[Queltor]

Would it be reasonable to make Divine Might work the same for Blackguards as it does for Paladins and CoT?

Blackguards are "anti-paladins" so it seems fair to treat them the same.

[Aarkon Draco]

i recall a topic similar and iirc the responce was no because BG gets a awesome summons where as a paladin and CoT dont.

[Sparky]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but COT's actually aren't included in the coding (No innate Turn Undead). Its only Paladin's, Clerics, and BG's. Any Paladin levels will get you access to a Paladin's version of Divine Might though.

[Celorn]

yeah.. i'd go for this too, i have a couple BGs that seem cheated - they don't have summons (except to be igms-sponges) and BGs only have a few 1-shot spells.. not like paladins who have some nice spells to give them damage shields, or boost AB, freedom, etc.. plus they can choose which ones to memorize.

I think someone needs to start a petition ;P

[Queltor]

i recall a topic similar and iirc the responce was no because BG gets a awesome summons where as a paladin and CoT dont.

Let me make sure I understand:
- The maxed Divine Might bonus can be attained by taking 5 levels of Paladin or CoT (allowing 20+ levels of a CHA-based casting class)
- The "awesome summons" of a Blackguard requires 20+ levels of a non-casting PrC

That doesn't seem like a good balance.

[cRaZy8or5e]

I think there is that, plus bg are limited to being only evil, not necessarily lawful evil. So can you imagine a dex based 30bd/10bg with divine might running around with +20 damage . I can too and it would be a killer. Uber high saves, uber damage and high AC to boot. As it stands a 30bd/10bg is still a nasty melee build all by itself with only +10 damage from divine might and then the damage from a lvl 30 bard song. Surprised I haven't seen any of these running around? I'm sure they are out there somewhere, I'm just too much of a noob to have been here when they were here .

Oh yeah and don't forget their sneak damage on top of everything else. I don't know about everyone else, but I think the limitation makes it pretty balanced imho.

[Celorn]

I think there is that, plus bg are limited to being only evil, not necessarily lawful evil. So can you imagine a dex based 30bd/10bg with divine might running around with +20 damage . I can too and it would be a killer. Uber high saves, uber damage and high AC to boot. As it stands a 30bd/10bg is still a nasty melee build all by itself with only +10 damage from divine might and then the damage from a lvl 30 bard song. Surprised I haven't seen any of these running around? I'm sure they are out there somewhere, I'm just too much of a noob to have been here when they were here .

I have 3 lvl40 bard/bg's... not 30/10 but; 2/32/6, (2/33/5 on reflections) and 5/30/5....

And yah, they can be really decent but at the same time BG =/= PM and BG's can't boost their AB by 6 like a paladin - but at least with bard you can use umd for some boosts, so they seem pretty even still... except for double damage with might ;P.

[Rummybum]

right Aarkon BG 's currently have that summons and they are much easier to get tough thatn a paladin because pallys have othere limits that bg's don't.

[Aarkon Draco]

BG also are the ONLY class that have a stackable bulls spell allowing for up to +10 str that equals +5 ab and damage. true the max bonus is +12 however with the right gloves Gal-Ralan for example your only loosing out on 3 str from the gloves for some nice bonuses to AC, Disc, and saves.

however i do see some of the reverse argument on this perhaps after lvl 10 BGs can get 1 point neg energy per 3 levels in addition to the 10 divine ( assuming they have the 30 Cha ) this would better reflect their fiendish nature IMO.

[LinuxPup]

Should still be divine... divine isn't necessarily good, it can be from Torm or Lolth.

[-BannyD-]

id support the 10bg = double dmg/ac on divine might/shield. pallies still do it in 5 and get useful spells. BGs could take longer to do it since they do have access to a nice summon, though it takes a lot of lvls to get....but you could argue that pallies get pure class bonuses with similar dedication to the class (well will be). i dont think the devs have plans for "pure" prestige classes?

[Lorkar1]

Assassins?????

[Gornickthy]

right Aarkon BG 's currently have that summons and they are much easier to get tough thatn a paladin because pallys have othere limits that bg's don't.

Also BG's are a prestige class and Palli's are a base class. They really shouldn't be compared unless the BG was a base class since prestige classes are suppose to be a little on the tougher side than base classes.

[Celorn]

right Aarkon BG 's currently have that summons and they are much easier to get tough thatn a paladin because pallys have othere limits that bg's don't.

Also BG's are a prestige class and Palli's are a base class. They really shouldn't be compared unless the BG was a base class since prestige classes are suppose to be a little on the tougher side than base classes.

I do disagree almost completely :]... BG is setup to be the evil version of a paladin, but it's implementation seems very broken - a handful of 1-shot spells setup as feats?... sure the strength stacks, but ns4 makes it easy to get to the 12-cap. and the summons is good, but you nerf your bard or caster levels by getting a decent summon, and if you don't have 30 levels in BG, there are some spells that can kill your uber summon in 1 shot...

But in the end I suppose having sneak attacks, high saves, divine might/shield and the ability to multi-class with bard makes it on-par with paladin. I just think it would be NICE to have the extra divine damage since the duration isn't that long anyhow...

[LinuxPup]

You'll be happy to know that we have some cool things in store for classes and subraces....