Ranged melee/spears with shields.

[REG RUB]

This is more of an idea/question than a suggestion.
Would it make sense to give some two-handed weapons, like polearms, an AC bonus because of thier greater attack range? I know it might seem a bit overpowered, but you rarley, if ever, see someone using a spear or halberd. What do you guys think?

[VagaStorm]

I belive ac bonus on 2 handed wepond defy their purpose. A 2 handed(not 2 bladed) wep is all about extra dmg. For a str based toon, a 2 handed wep should be able to push out dmg at a rate that maks you take down a toon with a 1 handed wep that much faster. Extra dmg should be added to em instead.

As for the 2 bladed weps, ac or dmg resistance maks a lot of sence, since they are str based(why! the 2 bladed sword is lighter than most light weps), and by using one, you give up the ability to switch to a shield...

[DM Sun Tzu]

Actually, the greater attack range of a polearm is offset by the difficulty of defending against someone too close to you. Polearms (which are different from other two handed weapons) are designed to be used in formation, not by individual fighters.

[disastro]

I belive ac bonus on 2 handed wepond defy their purpose. A 2 handed(not 2 bladed) wep is all about extra dmg. For a str based toon, a 2 handed wep should be able to push out dmg at a rate that maks you take down a toon with a 1 handed wep that much faster.

i dont understand why you don't feel this reasoning applies to 2 bladed weapons as well.

[REG RUB]

Actually, the greater attack range of a polearm is offset by the difficulty of defending against someone too close to you. Polearms (which are different from other two handed weapons) are designed to be used in formation, not by individual fighters.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about ancient Greece or China. I'm talking about ADnD - NS4.

And I know what you mean about the extra damage, but is that really enough? From the lack of two-handed weapon users, other than the occasional weapon switch, back attack, I'd say not.

Even just being able to use a small shield with a two-handed weapon would be a huge benifit. Both of those items are so rarely used.

[DragonLance]

Must say i agree with the rubster on this one.

One thing ive noticed here is the extremely limited selection of wpns being used by the majority of Characters Like hammer and rapier.

The other point here is no shield is a bad bad thing on 9 out of 10 builds. I just started a pure Barbarian and didnt take the hvy armor feat - like a lot do and im using chainmail + tower shield ATM for a huge 25 ac at lvl 8 - take my shield off and im in big trouble, i already get hit way more than someone in full pl8. Even 2 ac make a noticable differrence.

I mean there are options like earth genasi - but do we really want 90% of 2 handed wpn toons to all be earth genasi and have to take the xp hit.

While realistically its silly to give someone using a spear , greatsword etc an AC boost but i dont think were talking actual shield proportions. Basically i think what we need is a small incentive to foster wpn variety - Could make it so a lvl 16 one gives +1 ac lvl 20 +2 lvl 25 +3 lvl 30 +4 and a lvl 40 +5 - i dont know its an idea ?

[-BannyD-]

AC on weapons is deflection. this is already covered by cloaks, helms, gloves....pointless to add another source especially if its supposed to be a benefit for 2handed weapons.

2handed weapons deserve more offense than 1handers. there was a discussion awhile ago when the pos plane just came out as to what AB caps there would be. on top of some extra damage, i wanted the 2handed weapons capable of going up to +8enhancement, and 1handed weapons were to be capped at +6enhancement. but that didnt happen, and look at the percentage of people who use a Rapier

[REG RUB]

It's hardly pointless. There could be more AC on the weapon than the cloak, it could be coded to another AC modifier or just be able to use a small shield.

[-BannyD-]

to make the AC worthwhile, it would have to be something like..+8deflection, granting an extra 3ac over the normal +5deflection. that might effect weapon lvl requirements, but i doubt it.

and are you sure you can code it to another AC type? i dont think that can be done, certainly without a hakpak. and to use a small shield with your 2handed weapon your medium sized hero would have to be pushed to large, which creates lots of balance issues.

but other than that, i still agree with vagastorm that AC on 2handed weapons goes against their purpose of generally higher damage.

but do not underestimate 2handed weapons, i use one on my pure barbarian too and will achieve regular damage hits comparable to most crits from a x2 weapon....i think having shield bonuses, or more ac, etc...on top of that dmg, would be a bit crazy.

a better solution i think....is to make more 2handed epic weapons. where are the lvl 35 spears? halberds? greatswords? heavy flails? or heck...even some uber lvl 40 quarterstaff. the best 2handed weapon is the scythe unless on very very very low magic servers, it will do more average dmg than the others....and how many do we have to choose from? whats the best weapon in the server? just some needed diversity will fix 2handed problem. keep 1handed weapons at lvl 30, 2handers or generally weak weapons (sickle, etc) can do 35 or up.

that way, the 1handers would sacrifice offensive power for the added stability of a shield...as it should be *curses at the Blade of the Abyss*

[REG RUB]

I doubt balance would be an issue, considering the prestige class to faction restrictions. ie. MA getting PM. I can say for sure that a real balance issue would be small races getting the shaft, but how many play str based small races?
I'm pretty sure any of those mods can be done, but I guess we will have to wait for input from a dev.
This wasn't really mean to be a powergaming type idea, it was supposed to be... fun. I know a lot of people would like to play two handers without being a drain on their and party members funds.

[DM Sun Tzu]

Yeah, but I'm not talking about ancient Greece or China. I'm talking about ADnD - NS4.

And I am talking about AD&D. A polearm is 8-10 feet long or longer according to the description in my 3.5 D&D manuals. If I am close enough to hit you with my one handed weapon, then you can't hit me with the blade or the point of your polearm.

[-BannyD-]

I doubt balance would be an issue, considering the prestige class to faction restrictions. ie. MA getting PM. I can say for sure that a real balance issue would be small races getting the shaft, but how many play str based small races?
I'm pretty sure any of those mods can be done, but I guess we will have to wait for input from a dev.
This wasn't really mean to be a powergaming type idea, it was supposed to be... fun. I know a lot of people would like to play two handers without being a drain on their and party members funds.

i know what you mean wholeheartedly. i too am tired of seeing everyone with a rapier, or making builds using rapiers. i like diversity. i was just giving input from a powergamer about this, because if i can find a flaw in the design and implementation of 2handed weapon changes, ill be very quick to use and abuse it. im sure there are others on the same page.

so because of thus...i just want things completely balanced before going in i guess, if you know what i mean.

[Amoenotep]

haha, what if 2 handed weapons did double the damage of 1 handers....talk about a hard decision between damage vs ac/shield

[LinuxPup]

Can Power Attack or Dirty Fighting be scriped? Maybe give a dodge bonus to AC while using it if the player has a halberd or spear equipped... while also not giving the -5 or -10 to AB or at least a minimized penalty to AB.

Or if Expertise/Imp. Expertise can be modified... a reduced AB penalty for spear/halberd/trident users could be nice.

It would make sense to have a combat mode bonus applied to longarms since they'd have to stand still to get the defensive benefits. Can't think of many combat mode abilities... I guess there's parry too...the Dwarven Defender one isn't general enough.

Or maybe large deflection bonuses like posted earlier, but only vs. large opponents like dragons, giants, golems, etc. There's already an innate AC penalty in large sizes, but this would give the longarm folks a little
something extra.

Seems like this has been discussed before though.

Hehe... a weird idea (I have plenty)... a token (or maybe an on-use on a longarm) that when used, checks to see if there are other longarm party members within 10 feet... and gives a +5 dodge AC to each fellow longarm-wielding defender as long as they stay within the radius of you. So if you had a group of 4 halberd guys close together, all four people get a +15 dodge AC bonus... there's a bioware +20 dodge AC cap for sanity.

Or... perhaps the idea of a shield bearer would be cool... someone who has no weapon equipped, nor do they attack at all, but they give themselves and maybe 1-2 other people sneak immunity and/or AC bonuses when nearby... if thats even possible.

Ok enough craziness...

[kgb]

I agree that additional AC kind of goes against the purpose of focusing in a 2-Hander or double-wpn.

My proposal is not to focus on having a comparable AC as a sword and board toon but look at covering a more noticeable difference needing attention.

One of the focuses of NS4 mobs is the damage source variety. A mob will usually comprise of bludge, pierce and slash or at least 2 of the three making not wielding a shield hazardous.

I would like to see 2-Handed weapons and double weapons given a large boost in damage resist type. I find it ridiculous an Electric Shortbow (A 25th level weapon) has a damage resist of only 5/- when the mobs that are being fought for example Sahuagin Harpooners are replying with immense damage potential.


Currently immunities as taken from the Wiki are as follows (Double Weapons Only):

* Level 5: 5% immunity
* Level 9: 5% immunity
* Level 13: 10% immunity
* Level 16: 5% immunity, 5/- resistance
* Level 20: 10% immunity, 5/- resistance
* Level 25: 10% immunity, 10/- resistance
* Level 30: 15% immunity, 10/- resistance


Suggestion for 2-Handed and Double Weapons Only:

*Note: I realise halflings and gnomes would miss out with using medium weapons two-handed but realistically they represent a small minority of an existing small minority and would be too cumbersome to implement server wide unless the devs know of an easier way - token perhaps?


* Level 5: 5% immunity
* Level 9: 10% immunity
* Level 13: 10% immunity, 5/- resistance
* Level 16: 10% immunity, 10/- resistance
* Level 20: 10% immunity, 15/- resistance
* Level 25: 10% immunity, 15/- resistance
* Level 30: 15% immunity, 20/- resistance


Basically I suggest the scale should slide one higher than what is available to a sword and board setup.


This approach does not make their AC's uber meaning they will still suffer when mobbed on just not to an instant death degree. It encourages the use of any race besides Earth Genasi or class other than PMs to wield 2-handed or double wpns.


This is just a suggestion. I do realise this will make PMs even tougher if they choose to use these wpns but the benefits of the above setup to playability is much less compared to any other class.