Did Shifters get a Nerf?

Ebenezer Grymm · Post by **Ebenezer Grymm** » Sun May 27, 2007 5:15 am

Up until just today, under Construct Shapes in the Wiki it read that the Iron Golem form was immune to all spells lvl 8 and lower, plus all Evocation spells.

Now it just says all spells lvl 6 and lower.

Whatsupwitdat?

Oh, and if you think PM's are bad, Construct forms are immune to crits, IGMS, Wilting (even though it doesnt say that), sneaks, knockdowns, and a LOT more. Why don't people make these?

Oh, and whiole I'm at it, nerf Creeping Doom and Vine Mine.

That is all for now.

Nolan Silvermoon · Post by **Nolan Silvermoon** » Sun May 27, 2007 6:58 am

Post by **Binkyuk** » Sun May 27, 2007 8:59 am

According the wiki page history it's never said level 8.
You're probably thinking of Rakshasa Shape.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Sun May 27, 2007 9:08 am

not very many ppl make shifters because its a difficult class to play. not to mention if you die shifted you have a good chance to crash the server.

why nerf vine mine and creeping?

Post by **Malik** » Sun May 27, 2007 1:11 pm

Constructs have always been 6th level and below, they would be a lot more common if gloves were calculated into the shape, however they arn't so they suffer a pretty bad ab and damage.

Post by **Mr. O'Dearly** » Sun May 27, 2007 2:08 pm

Constructs are tough but there are REALLY easy ways to kill them. Further because you can't multiclass and take epic shapes, its impossible to cover their weakness.

The first time I raided with a construct I almost made it to avendell from LA's cradle with at least 5 or 6 30+ defenders swarming around me. They eventually figured out how to stop me. Everytime after that they could have a single defender in the relic room and I would never make it out.

Edit: and oh yeah, they can't hit anything :O

Ebenezer Grymm · Post by **Ebenezer Grymm** » Sun May 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Yeah it's just that, well, they are crit immune and sneak immune, I mean come on thats like, ridiculous.

I mean really, nobody else in this game is crit and sneak immune, why should Construct forms be?

And Druid elemental forms?

And Undead shapes.

And Wiz's and Sorc's with Shapechange into Golems.

And Dragons are sneak immune with real True Sight.

(underlying sarcasm ends here)

But anyways, yeah Vine Mine has a much larger radius and much longer duration than it should, even after the spell ends you're still slowed for a loooooooong time. Sure I know if you have FoM on before you walk in it all problems are solved. But if you don't it's game over.

And Creeping Doom. I saw a guild mate take 560+ dmg from it. In one round. I know how the spell works, but sheesh.

I hate puttin stuff like this out on the forums anyway. It's like giving free info to the masses.

A guild mate of mine said, "If people were smart they would all make shifters". The immediate reply was "Well, most people just aren't smart."

-BannyD- · Post by **-BannyD-** » Sun May 27, 2007 10:55 pm

well i guess you are arguing the power of shifter vs PM classes. shifters are very powerful and yes, when KST moved to TC i was a quite afraid of a full shifter raiding party...but that didnt happen.

just dont forget that PMs get massive AC, epic spells, PM lvl added to caster lvl, the ability to use gloves, and the ability to use items in your inventory (im talkin about rods/special items here, not potions).

Oh and the requirements are much easier for PMs. i consider taking two useless feats much less beneficial than a couple bard levels. Not to mention you're best class feats are not restricted by a number of classes. the Epic Shapes a shifter can get are good.....but not without a 3rd class. they wont have the AB or AC to compete with regular classes. lets see how good your PMs are if you cannot take a 3rd class with 12+ PM lvls.

also dont forget you are almost fully undead but do not receive the penalties of being undead. try sucking down a heal pot in Risen Lord form

. Shifters can be good, but every shape has vulnerabilities. you receive no penalties when you are a pale master, you only gain. try playing a construct and see how fast you die to bludgeoning or fire or piercing damage, etc

i agree with a lot of the stuff you say, but do not try to undermine the power of the Pale Master.

(and before you wail on AO, yes RDDs are damn good)

*edit* and about your spell imbalances...creeping doom may do 560dmg to your guildmate, but hey, it will then do like 600dmg to the caster or his allie should they enter (if its not dead yet from the max dmg it can make, you know what i mean).

vine mine, heh, awesome spell. but no, if you walk into it without freedom on you arent screwed. you just.....dont know how to fix it yourself i guess.

Post by **Malik** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:00 am

You can also... I don't know. Walk around vine mine... and creeping doom.

Ebenezer Grymm · Post by **Ebenezer Grymm** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:02 am

You can also... I don't know. Walk around vine mine... and creeping doom.

Depending on where the caster places it.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:00 am

i still don't see how they are over powered? if anything i think creeping needs a little boost just to keep up with spells it should be doing anyway....i'v had chars resist almost total damage from creeping without flinching, you just have to treat it with respect and not contempt.

Ebenezer Grymm · Post by **Ebenezer Grymm** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:11 am

Understood, we know ways to lessen the dmg from it or negate it entirely, seeing dmg from it at such high numbers though would make anyone wary.

It's definitely a spell to respect.

Back on topic though, I swear I read one of the pages in the wiki about the shifter forms and it said what I said in the original post, that they were immune to all spells of level 8 or lower and all spells from the Evocation school. That didn't just come out of nowhere.

*EDIT* Nevermind, must have taken in too much info about shifters in one sitting and my brain got cross-eyed. The level 8 spells thing was about Rakshasas. Mystery solved, Eb feels dumb.

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Mon May 28, 2007 12:05 pm

-BannyD- wrote:well i guess you are arguing the power of shifter vs PM classes. shifters are very powerful and yes, when KST moved to TC i was a quite afraid of a full shifter raiding party...but that didnt happen.

Probably because shifters are such a pain to play with the endless list of bioware bugs. But yeah, imagine kst with 2 disarming dragonshapes, some epic kobolds and some bard/sd's to keep everyone song-buffed, hasted and ii'd....

-BannyD- wrote:just dont forget that PMs get massive AC, epic spells, PM lvl added to caster lvl, the ability to use gloves, and the ability to use items in your inventory (im talkin about rods/special items here, not potions).

Oh and the requirements are much easier for PMs. i consider taking two useless feats much less beneficial than a couple bard levels. Not to mention you're best class feats are not restricted by a number of classes. the Epic Shapes a shifter can get are good.....but not without a 3rd class. they wont have the AB or AC to compete with regular classes. lets see how good your PMs are if you cannot take a 3rd class with 12+ PM lvls.

also dont forget you are almost fully undead but do not receive the penalties of being undead. try sucking down a heal pot in Risen Lord form . Shifters can be good, but every shape has vulnerabilities. you receive no penalties when you are a pale master, you only gain. try playing a construct and see how fast you die to bludgeoning or fire or piercing damage, etc

i agree with a lot of the stuff you say, but do not try to undermine the power of the Pale Master.

AMEN! Couldn't have said it better, so just had to quote it. Almost makes me wanna join -slaves- ;P

You can take a 3rd class with a shifter, but you're stuck with the 'free' shapes, which STILL can be good if you use monk or rogue and get 17 shifter levels, but you're pretty much stuck with a 1-trick pony.