Ranged Touch Attacks

Post by **LinuxPup** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:28 pm

Can someone please add a discipline check or something to the ranged touch attacks.... they're far too powerful. It doesn't seem right for a lvl 39 toon with 90+ discipline to be KD by a CR 2 creature outside of Garagoth...

Currently there's no save at all... none. If you get hit, you must fall... only a few characters can avoid getting hit most of the time. Non dex-based characters are screwed. All that discipline has no effect which seems odd. Anyway, just my thoughts. Thanks

Core · Post by **Core** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:50 pm

It goes off natural ac, basically your dex modifier. Armor doesn't matter for ranged touch attacks and the knockdown has nothing to do with discipline it's magical. The best defence against ranged touch attacks is probably imp invis. Unless it's changed for NS4 the way to see your ac vs ranged touch attack would be to take off all your armor everything. AFAIK

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:02 pm

I agree, it gets worse when those creatures with it can actually kill you like in HoD. There needs to be some boundaries to it. I mean really, our pure monk at level 39 with discipline, tumble, dex, deflect arrows, etc. should not get knocked down by a CR 29 creature.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:09 pm

Yep, and in HOD it's with an AB of 49 or so (funny, the touch attack is made at FULL ab against NO armor, instead of BAB only).

Massively overpowered. Especially when the sentinels can also see through invis.

MLoki · Post by **MLoki** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:34 pm

Honestly, even with my 40th level Monk with AC of 75 (-6 for Robes, -4 Natural Armor) I still get knocked down occasionally running past Garagoth. Albeit on a 20, but it is still kinda silly how a pigmy cooker can do that to ya. Let alone what can happen to you when you are in HoD and they actually have a better then 5% chance to hit you.

MLoki

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:08 pm

The auto-hit abilities used by epic monsters are definitely not in keeping with the spirit of NS4.

Add a saving throw or something.

LunarSquirrel · Post by **LunarSquirrel** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:48 pm

I'm the latest victim. Level 37 cleric with full disc: was unable to even get off a heal or any action as I watched a lone tempest and air ele hold me down and pick at me from full HP.

Sheer BS. Add a saving throw already.

-Jesse

Dynmi · Post by **Dynmi** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:36 am

If you have a party it's not as big a problem, my dragonfrom gets kded from this also though.

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:47 am

well tempest are cr 31 or 30 and their kd is really their only attack. if you go against a tempest and get kd all you have to worry about is an implossion and a storm of V. they need something like a belker to do any damage.

as for the pigmy cookers i can see your guys point although i have not had that problem as i havent made an MA toon.

the question is how to fix or change it. make it go off bab? make it a disc check vs str roll?

i think the problem with ranged touch attacks is that its almost to hard for a caster to make one on a dexer. ever seen a pure cleric harm a 39th lvl monk?

correction.... not ranged as pointed out below, just a touch attack in general

so whatever the change may be we cannot forget that us as players also have to make touch attacks aswell.

Post by **LinuxPup** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:14 pm

Well, harm isn't a ranged touch attack.

Also, the problem isn't whether or not you get hit by a ranged touch attack... I'm fine with the way it is personally... the issue is *when* you are hit, should there be a save of some sort or not... I tend to think there should be a discipline check, but maybe a strength check would work... although I hate to be a wiz or sorc sorc in that situation, where they generally have poor AC and strength.

disastro · Post by **disastro** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:32 pm

ranged touch attacks generally dont have saves per pen and paper d&d, basically your AC is supposed to be your "save." it's meant for low level wizard spells, which generally works because wizards have low ab and the spell effects are small change damage in most cases.

the issue here is that a ranged touch knockdown on a cr 1-2 creature is out of proportion: it's a very powerful effect that you'd normally see on much higher level creatures if at all.

Lorkar1 · Post by **Lorkar1** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:06 pm

Is this even being looked into?
My pure fighter that is L40 with a 58 AC got knocked flat by C.R. 3.00 that rolled a 16+2 and hit me. How is this even possible? Is this calculated by bare armor class? Because that is the only I can think of where I would get hit.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:08 pm

ranged touch attacks go off base ac. maybe dodge and dex ac also..but i'm not 100% sure about that.

spells like Harm go off a ranged touch attack.

Blystos Re · Post by **Blystos Re** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:30 pm

<--- Remembers that he is parked alone in plane of air.

Post by **LinuxPup** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:49 pm

Touch Attacks and Ranged Touch Attacks ignore shield, armor, and natural AC. All other AC acts normally. If you're flat-footed you of course lose your dodge AC and tumble AC as well as your dex AC if you don't have uncanny dodge or defensive awareness.

So, as far as the CR 3.00 creature (pigmy cooker I assume?) knocking you down, if you were flat-footed, then yeah he can hit you.

Not all AC is equal... in some situations natural, shield, and armor AC is better... like when you're flat-footed or blind. Dodge/Tumble/Dex AC is better vs. touch attacks however... just don't get hit with a WoF or you're screwed.

Overall some of the best AC you can get is Deflection and Monk AC. Works vs. touch attacks *and* when you're flat-footed.