Pure Class Builds
Pure Class Builds
Any hints from folks (Dev, DMs) about what the pure class benefits might be? Am in the middle of several single class builds right now and would like a better idea if I want to do the muticlass cheese or keep it pure...
Devs keep up the good work! Was trying to wean myself off of this server, but your efforts (planars, multiclass restrictions, latest spell modifications) have brought me back like a crack addict.
Devs keep up the good work! Was trying to wean myself off of this server, but your efforts (planars, multiclass restrictions, latest spell modifications) have brought me back like a crack addict.
Last edited by Holghask on Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Flailer
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Okay - I may regret this, but here goes.
We're not quite ready to detail pure class bonuses yet, but they're looking good. Melee classes are more straightforward, and we've got a nice selection of bonuses for those.
The harder cases are for casters and clerics. Those classes are already very powerful, so what incentives can you give to them to make them want to stay pure classed?
So, how about some ideas? You're a creative bunch. Do our work for us.
Now, before suggestions come out like 'Immune to knockdown!' - that's not what we're after. You don't want to level out all the classes so they're the same. Think building to that classes strengths.
Bonuses can be inherent bonuses or bonuses activated from a token.

We're not quite ready to detail pure class bonuses yet, but they're looking good. Melee classes are more straightforward, and we've got a nice selection of bonuses for those.
The harder cases are for casters and clerics. Those classes are already very powerful, so what incentives can you give to them to make them want to stay pure classed?
So, how about some ideas? You're a creative bunch. Do our work for us.

Now, before suggestions come out like 'Immune to knockdown!' - that's not what we're after. You don't want to level out all the classes so they're the same. Think building to that classes strengths.
Bonuses can be inherent bonuses or bonuses activated from a token.
Flailer
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Some sort of boost for their spell DC's, example: +1dc/xxspellcraft or +1dc/xxlevels
Gear with extra spell slots, scripted to unequip if not pure classed. (Like the current level req system does when someone isn't high enough level)
When they reach level 40 pure class they get a skin with Bioware HASTE on it (except for clerics)
Gear with >6 ability bonuses.
Armor and shields wearable without arcane spell failure.
Ability to craft better items than normal.
Ability to skip mind-affecting spell immunity with their spells.
Auto-Extended Spell. Let it stack with normal extend spell too. i.e. 1round/lvl + pure class auto extend = 2round/lvl
1round/lvl+pureclass auto-extend + normal extend = 3round/level.
Removal of spell duration caps. i.e. remove cap from charm/hold/dominate spells
Increase or remove dmg caps on some spells. Increase Fireball to 20d6 max dmg as long as pure classed.
Flame Weapon, let it give more than 2d4.
Auto-Empower Spell.
Gear with extra spell slots, scripted to unequip if not pure classed. (Like the current level req system does when someone isn't high enough level)
When they reach level 40 pure class they get a skin with Bioware HASTE on it (except for clerics)
Gear with >6 ability bonuses.
Armor and shields wearable without arcane spell failure.
Ability to craft better items than normal.
Ability to skip mind-affecting spell immunity with their spells.
Auto-Extended Spell. Let it stack with normal extend spell too. i.e. 1round/lvl + pure class auto extend = 2round/lvl
1round/lvl+pureclass auto-extend + normal extend = 3round/level.
Removal of spell duration caps. i.e. remove cap from charm/hold/dominate spells
Increase or remove dmg caps on some spells. Increase Fireball to 20d6 max dmg as long as pure classed.
Flame Weapon, let it give more than 2d4.
Auto-Empower Spell.
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I don't think pure casters really require a lot to stay pure anyway. Druids already have a reason with restrictions on Dragon Shape. As for the others, I don't think we really need to make their spells more powerful, level 30 casters are already pretty damn strong now the way they are. Maybe +7 or +8 gear that only pures can use is ok, and gear that offers more bonus slots that only certain pure classes can use is good, but bonus auto metamagic feats, bumped spell DCs and stuff like that I think will keep pushing things in favor of casters. I'd rather see bonuses that encourage people to keep leveling as non-casters rather than a few here and there for nothing more than attack bonuses, feats, and/or skill points.
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Sorry, Flailer...maybe this should be in Ideas and Suggestions forum...but here goes some of my ideas (assuming melees have some nice bonuses brainstormed already).
Sneaks
1) Item with HIPs activation that lasts for a short time...something like the planned Assassin item in SL?
2) Cat's Grace Feat like Harper Scout's?
3) Item when activated allows unlimited ammo for use with equiped ranged weapon?
4) Extra attack per round?
Casters
1) Extra spell slots for spells level 1-3?
2) Epic Damage Dice (say maybe +1 die per 5 levs over 20) for spells with Damage? maybe only for spell levels 1-3?
3) Epic Spell DC (maybe +1 to the DC every 2 levs) only for spell levels 1-3 (who uses web, hold person, etc anymore once they get access to higher level spells)?
4) A better Dragon Knight/Mummy Dust for those selecting that feat than what is currently available?
Yep, you're right, casters are tough already...I'm starting to see a caster with the above suggestions from Jester or myself becoming even more powerful. Would the pure class bonus be something that is acheived only at 40th lev or as long as you have only 1 class (thus available to all 1st lev toons)?
For clerics: maybe the only bonus should be to all cure and heal spells? Maybe cure/heal more HP?
Sneaks
1) Item with HIPs activation that lasts for a short time...something like the planned Assassin item in SL?
2) Cat's Grace Feat like Harper Scout's?
3) Item when activated allows unlimited ammo for use with equiped ranged weapon?
4) Extra attack per round?
Casters
1) Extra spell slots for spells level 1-3?
2) Epic Damage Dice (say maybe +1 die per 5 levs over 20) for spells with Damage? maybe only for spell levels 1-3?
3) Epic Spell DC (maybe +1 to the DC every 2 levs) only for spell levels 1-3 (who uses web, hold person, etc anymore once they get access to higher level spells)?
4) A better Dragon Knight/Mummy Dust for those selecting that feat than what is currently available?
Yep, you're right, casters are tough already...I'm starting to see a caster with the above suggestions from Jester or myself becoming even more powerful. Would the pure class bonus be something that is acheived only at 40th lev or as long as you have only 1 class (thus available to all 1st lev toons)?
For clerics: maybe the only bonus should be to all cure and heal spells? Maybe cure/heal more HP?
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I definitely think we should give bonuses that really target the class in question - NOT bonuses that make up for "weaknesses" of the class. IE, don't give non-melee classes any attacks, AB, or bonus damage. Don't give non-sneakers any hide/move silently/rogue skills/epic dodge/etc. Don't give non-spellcasters any kind of SR/saves vs spells/etc.
What would be best would be to give bonuses that simply produce an overpowering version of that class - Give casters massive DC bonuses, automatic spell immunities, give rogues huge bonuses to sneak attack / hide / move silently / other rogue skills, give fighters big attack and damage bonuses, give clerics big bonuses related to their domains, etc.
Another thing that would be nice is to group main classes and certain prestige classes so that they stack for "pure class" consideration. Maybe a pure Rogue / SD will count as a pure Rogue. Same with Fighter / WM, Paladin / CoT, Druid / Shifter, etc.
What would be best would be to give bonuses that simply produce an overpowering version of that class - Give casters massive DC bonuses, automatic spell immunities, give rogues huge bonuses to sneak attack / hide / move silently / other rogue skills, give fighters big attack and damage bonuses, give clerics big bonuses related to their domains, etc.
Another thing that would be nice is to group main classes and certain prestige classes so that they stack for "pure class" consideration. Maybe a pure Rogue / SD will count as a pure Rogue. Same with Fighter / WM, Paladin / CoT, Druid / Shifter, etc.
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With things like auto-extend and auto-empower, you could make them elvel dependant like the auto-still and such.
level 1-4 you get auto extend for level 1 spells only.
level 5-8 you get auto extend for level 2 spells and below.
level 9-12 you get auto extend for level 3 spells and below.
level 13-16 you get auto extend for level 4 spells and below.
level 17-20 you get auto extend for level 5 spells and below.
etc.
leave auto-empower for level 20 and after.
21-27 level 3 and below spells auto-empowered
28-34 level 6 and below spells
35+ level 9 and below.
At the magical 40, remove auto-empower and give auto-max. Would stack with normal empower, but make regular max spell obsolete.
Another idea is to help pure classes combat Evasion and Improved Evasion.
Even if they make save with Evasion, they still take 30% dmg.
With Improved Evasion they take 15% dmg with save, and 65% with without save
level 1-4 you get auto extend for level 1 spells only.
level 5-8 you get auto extend for level 2 spells and below.
level 9-12 you get auto extend for level 3 spells and below.
level 13-16 you get auto extend for level 4 spells and below.
level 17-20 you get auto extend for level 5 spells and below.
etc.
leave auto-empower for level 20 and after.
21-27 level 3 and below spells auto-empowered
28-34 level 6 and below spells
35+ level 9 and below.
At the magical 40, remove auto-empower and give auto-max. Would stack with normal empower, but make regular max spell obsolete.
Another idea is to help pure classes combat Evasion and Improved Evasion.
Even if they make save with Evasion, they still take 30% dmg.
With Improved Evasion they take 15% dmg with save, and 65% with without save
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bards should get auto stills maybe for pure classing? up that song, maybe do something a little different with it.
rogues should get something to help sneak attacks or hiding. maybe assassin should count with rogue for pure class as SD should..it fits since they have the same sneak progression and skill list.
fighters definately need some big incentives, but i'm not sure what it should be...up the dc on barbarian rages, pally's definately need holy sword/detect aura also.
casters maybe access you auto feats and all...empower, extend, maximize.
monky's could maybe get more ac or focus their talents with melee combats. could go to the books like shaolin monks, drunken fighters, adepts and stuff. choose a progression and get certain kinds of different attacks and skills.
rogues should get something to help sneak attacks or hiding. maybe assassin should count with rogue for pure class as SD should..it fits since they have the same sneak progression and skill list.
fighters definately need some big incentives, but i'm not sure what it should be...up the dc on barbarian rages, pally's definately need holy sword/detect aura also.
casters maybe access you auto feats and all...empower, extend, maximize.
monky's could maybe get more ac or focus their talents with melee combats. could go to the books like shaolin monks, drunken fighters, adepts and stuff. choose a progression and get certain kinds of different attacks and skills.
if i didn't do it...someone else would have.
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I think the bardsong is fine as is for the moment. Only thing would be to check the Perform Skill requirement and scale it to match NS4 gear.
A big incentive for pureclass monks would be extra AB.
Also cloth armor with protection vs multiple dmg types, that or boost the monk's 20/+1, increase the +1 using a skin like for subraces.
Don't know about the duration of Empty Body, but maybe a boost there could help.
Fighters/Barbs/Rangers/Paladins... The main reason I multiclass my warrior builds is because these pure classes get hardcore p\/\/ nd by anything requiring a will save.
Caster Druids... Need more help than other casters. No improved invis, no haste. They slow and easy to hit, make approaching them VERY painful.
This is the pureclass that removing dmg caps on spells would make the most sense for. As well as boosting DC's.
Elemental Swarm <--- This spell has GREAT potential for helping a caster druid out. Have it summon elementals like Summon IX, but better ones, and when one is killed it is automatically replaced like in description.
Make the summons brought forth with Elemental Swarm scale with Druid level while pureclassed, like Mummy Dust, but better.
Allow Druids to summon at full potential during combat, atleast with Elemental Swarm.
Allow Pure Class Druids to not be harmed by their own Creeping Doom spell.
Let Pure Class druids bring in special Creeping Dooms that do divine dmg instead of pierce.
A big incentive for pureclass monks would be extra AB.
Also cloth armor with protection vs multiple dmg types, that or boost the monk's 20/+1, increase the +1 using a skin like for subraces.
Don't know about the duration of Empty Body, but maybe a boost there could help.
Fighters/Barbs/Rangers/Paladins... The main reason I multiclass my warrior builds is because these pure classes get hardcore p\/\/ nd by anything requiring a will save.
Caster Druids... Need more help than other casters. No improved invis, no haste. They slow and easy to hit, make approaching them VERY painful.
This is the pureclass that removing dmg caps on spells would make the most sense for. As well as boosting DC's.
Elemental Swarm <--- This spell has GREAT potential for helping a caster druid out. Have it summon elementals like Summon IX, but better ones, and when one is killed it is automatically replaced like in description.
Make the summons brought forth with Elemental Swarm scale with Druid level while pureclassed, like Mummy Dust, but better.
Allow Druids to summon at full potential during combat, atleast with Elemental Swarm.
Allow Pure Class Druids to not be harmed by their own Creeping Doom spell.
Let Pure Class druids bring in special Creeping Dooms that do divine dmg instead of pierce.
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Indeed, rogues NEED HIPS. Its not a want, its a need literally. Now, I'm not all for a HIPS-activation item. That just seems kinda lame. I mean, if you've been honing your skills as a rogue you should be able to eventually master the art of tricking those who "see" you. While shadowdancers practice this ability directly and and master it sooner. Rogues, on the other hand, practice other abilities as well like sneak attacks, pick lock, disable traps, evasion skills, etc. that they can not effectively learn this ability right away. However, as they reach epics, they have finally managed the ability of tricking the senses.

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Nah.
Do something like increased AB for rogues.
Set monsters that carry healing gear to be vulnerable to having it PP'd.
"Wow... That boss has 2000HP and a heal pot that heals him to almost full... AHH!!! But what's this?!!! A rogue just did nearly 2000dmg effectively by stealing that heal pot from him?" p\/\/ nd...
Basically give pure rogues a PP boost vs monsters.
That would be much nicer to see than more hipshors...
Do something like increased AB for rogues.
Set monsters that carry healing gear to be vulnerable to having it PP'd.
"Wow... That boss has 2000HP and a heal pot that heals him to almost full... AHH!!! But what's this?!!! A rogue just did nearly 2000dmg effectively by stealing that heal pot from him?" p\/\/ nd...
Basically give pure rogues a PP boost vs monsters.
That would be much nicer to see than more hipshors...