although there's been a thread for relics, i'd like to discuss in detail the implications of positioning relics in factions. It will have certain consequences to how a relic is viable for preventive defense and offensive defense.
Definition of terms:
1) Preventive defense - defending the relic while it is still in cradle.
2) Offensive defense - the relic has been stolen but has not yet left the vicinity. It can still be reclaimed by a killing the relic bearer.
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i will consider location of map, AI nearby, and possible player strategies and interactions with the overall system while on defense.
Relic Location Setup
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Nemesis Revised
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Relic Location Setup
Last edited by Nemesis Revised on Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nemesis Revised
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Ancient One's Relic
many AO players are disheartened that their cradle is simply in the center of the compound, ripe for easy picking. the guards are quite easy to beat up, the raiders most likely encountering rats, 3-4 guardians, and the dragon fella. when an attempt is made on the relic, players have about a minute or so to login their defenders and prevent the attempt. if players just position right, they login in a map where they won't be thrown off. this gives them enough space to run to the center and smack the enemy. if at the duration the player dies from the attempt, he / she is bound one map away (if bounded in dwelling) and can easily run outside. Also, since there are many buildings surrounding the cradle, players can position their characters in each building so as to simulate an ambush from different directions.
preventive defense rate: 4/5
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Once a relic has been captured, if the enemy is still within the compound (lets say he/she is resting or is waiting for allies to grab the other relics), AO defenders, again if bound in dwelling, can easily prep themselves up and chase down the enemy one map away. if the enemy is able to exit the sleeth compound, there's a chance that he will still face the dragon by the entrance (if the dragon wasn't slayed earlier). the dragon will most likely slow a member of the party who has low enough will to fail a save against fear. this gives AO players another chance to recapture their relic/s.
offensive defense rate: 4/5
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overall, given most AI have monster seeing, they'd attack invisible raiders and give home characters a chance to locate the enemy position within the battle field.
preventive defense rate: 4/5
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Once a relic has been captured, if the enemy is still within the compound (lets say he/she is resting or is waiting for allies to grab the other relics), AO defenders, again if bound in dwelling, can easily prep themselves up and chase down the enemy one map away. if the enemy is able to exit the sleeth compound, there's a chance that he will still face the dragon by the entrance (if the dragon wasn't slayed earlier). the dragon will most likely slow a member of the party who has low enough will to fail a save against fear. this gives AO players another chance to recapture their relic/s.
offensive defense rate: 4/5
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overall, given most AI have monster seeing, they'd attack invisible raiders and give home characters a chance to locate the enemy position within the battle field.
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Nemesis Revised
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SLs Relic Cradle
SL players current issue with relic defense is with the hidden legion tunnel being a high traffic zone instead of the other entrances. currently, this issue is still open to debate and no change has been implemented towards it.
regarding defense in the temple, I'd say the AI mobs far outweight AI defense as compared to the cradle defense in sleeth. It has a minion of Lolth, some drow assasins, some priestesses, as well as the high priestess. although the defense is heavy, epic chars with hips are able to attempt the cradle w/o being detected. at best, a player can only try to aid the AI by providing them true see or clarity since they don't have monster seeing as compared to sleeth. also, mobs are spawned in a pack area in the temple (one notices this when he rushes in). a wiz/sorc/cleric or whoever with area of effect damage can easily attempt the group in a quick fashion when they have just been spawned in a packed manner. a SL player who has been notified that his cradle is under attack, has enough time to login a char to try to help the AI mob (unless the AI mob was wiped away first). if a character died defending, and is bound at barracks, he/she has to travel two maps to get to the cradle point.
preventive defense rating: 4/5
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once a relic has been captured, and given all mobs have been slayed in the temple. a party can easily secure the temple from inside since it only has one entrance/exit. if the raiding party knows that a defender is coming, they can easily setup an ambush spot on that particular entrance of the temple. unlike sleeth compound, in which ambush can come from different directions, menzoduran's temple only has one door which can either be used very well by the raiding party or the defender. once they have exited the temple, raiders can easily split into different directions since menzoduran has various tunnels in and out. again, if a player died defending and is bound in barracks, he/she has to travel two maps to the relic cradle. but what's even more difficult is that if enemy has exited the temple, then it's harder to trace their direction already.
offensive defense rating: 2/5
regarding defense in the temple, I'd say the AI mobs far outweight AI defense as compared to the cradle defense in sleeth. It has a minion of Lolth, some drow assasins, some priestesses, as well as the high priestess. although the defense is heavy, epic chars with hips are able to attempt the cradle w/o being detected. at best, a player can only try to aid the AI by providing them true see or clarity since they don't have monster seeing as compared to sleeth. also, mobs are spawned in a pack area in the temple (one notices this when he rushes in). a wiz/sorc/cleric or whoever with area of effect damage can easily attempt the group in a quick fashion when they have just been spawned in a packed manner. a SL player who has been notified that his cradle is under attack, has enough time to login a char to try to help the AI mob (unless the AI mob was wiped away first). if a character died defending, and is bound at barracks, he/she has to travel two maps to get to the cradle point.
preventive defense rating: 4/5
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once a relic has been captured, and given all mobs have been slayed in the temple. a party can easily secure the temple from inside since it only has one entrance/exit. if the raiding party knows that a defender is coming, they can easily setup an ambush spot on that particular entrance of the temple. unlike sleeth compound, in which ambush can come from different directions, menzoduran's temple only has one door which can either be used very well by the raiding party or the defender. once they have exited the temple, raiders can easily split into different directions since menzoduran has various tunnels in and out. again, if a player died defending and is bound in barracks, he/she has to travel two maps to the relic cradle. but what's even more difficult is that if enemy has exited the temple, then it's harder to trace their direction already.
offensive defense rating: 2/5
Last edited by Nemesis Revised on Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nemesis Revised
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LA's Relic Cradle
LA defenders, get the bad end of the stick since raiders can come from the ferrymen (like in sleeth) and from a backdoor (such as SL). this is somehow balanced with the fact that player characters ahve a more versatile configuration of classes it can accept in LA.
the castle, similar to the situation in Menzoduran has mighty defenders such as ghaele, some guards, sir kobort and the duke. a difficulty however is that LA doesnt have much either against hipsters or against invisible raiders (unless ghaele purges invisibility). and the amount of damage they can pour most of the time comes from the melee presence of the guards (unlike SL who had lots of clerics to cast magic). defensively, LA's best bet is to rely on its numbers. if few LA are near however, then the cradle is easy picking. aside from that, if a defender died, the nearest temple he/she is bound to is in the temple. this gives two maps away to get to the cradle. once inside the castle, a player can also ambush an enemy just by the door exiting the duke's room.
preventive defense rating: 3/5
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if relics have been taken, the best bet for LA is again, to defend by numbers either by setting up an ambush point inside the castle or by waiting outside the castle door itself. escape however, is similar to the menzoduran equation. once raiders have exited the castle, they can easily spread to 2 directions (back to mercantile and to another map). this however gives defenders enough of a chance to chase down enemy (if they are taking the front gate) since they have to get through alot of areas with guards. the front gate also has a door that allows a player to determine whether or not the raider left there (if it opened or not). however, if a raider knows the tunnels, he/she can exit from behind. the best bet for LA is to reach the badlands and to setup ambush points by bridges so as to recapture the relic (running there however, will take alot of speed)
offensive defense rating: 3/5
the castle, similar to the situation in Menzoduran has mighty defenders such as ghaele, some guards, sir kobort and the duke. a difficulty however is that LA doesnt have much either against hipsters or against invisible raiders (unless ghaele purges invisibility). and the amount of damage they can pour most of the time comes from the melee presence of the guards (unlike SL who had lots of clerics to cast magic). defensively, LA's best bet is to rely on its numbers. if few LA are near however, then the cradle is easy picking. aside from that, if a defender died, the nearest temple he/she is bound to is in the temple. this gives two maps away to get to the cradle. once inside the castle, a player can also ambush an enemy just by the door exiting the duke's room.
preventive defense rating: 3/5
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if relics have been taken, the best bet for LA is again, to defend by numbers either by setting up an ambush point inside the castle or by waiting outside the castle door itself. escape however, is similar to the menzoduran equation. once raiders have exited the castle, they can easily spread to 2 directions (back to mercantile and to another map). this however gives defenders enough of a chance to chase down enemy (if they are taking the front gate) since they have to get through alot of areas with guards. the front gate also has a door that allows a player to determine whether or not the raider left there (if it opened or not). however, if a raider knows the tunnels, he/she can exit from behind. the best bet for LA is to reach the badlands and to setup ambush points by bridges so as to recapture the relic (running there however, will take alot of speed)
offensive defense rating: 3/5
Last edited by Nemesis Revised on Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Nemesis Revised
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so far that's what I have atm. if you guys have analyses as well, please do post them. this gives the devs a chance to study the versatility of gameplay issues that can be brought about by a relic cradle's position.
atm, i will have to study RK, TC, and NC relic cradles. if you fellas have studies on this, please do post.
atm, i will have to study RK, TC, and NC relic cradles. if you fellas have studies on this, please do post.
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lordvan52681
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NC's relic cradle
Nc has one of the better locations. It is just 2 screens away from from the closest rift shard, and has a virtual NPC army outside the doors of the building at most times. If you know they are coming you can set up a choke point in the main room.
As for offensive-sefense (oxymoron?), Daeron's straightforward design and the inabilty to use the ferries make it easy to set up choke points in several locations.
I will give NC 4/5 on both sides. It would get a perfect score except for 2 things:
1. The guards in Daeron are no better at seeing HIPSers or invis than in NS.
2. Total lack of defenders. I can count the amount of epic NC defenders on one hand. While they are growing, there is still almost never anyone 30+ on from NC, let alone more than 1.
As for offensive-sefense (oxymoron?), Daeron's straightforward design and the inabilty to use the ferries make it easy to set up choke points in several locations.
I will give NC 4/5 on both sides. It would get a perfect score except for 2 things:
1. The guards in Daeron are no better at seeing HIPSers or invis than in NS.
2. Total lack of defenders. I can count the amount of epic NC defenders on one hand. While they are growing, there is still almost never anyone 30+ on from NC, let alone more than 1.