PKs and Level Restrictions

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:37 am

Okay.. so I don't know if this is even possible, however..

Is it possible to set level restrictions on who another player can attack and if so, how do you feel about it?

An example would be you could not inter into a PvP action against someone.. say.. 5 levels above or below your own.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:42 am

I think that would suck for town defense. Lotsa lowbies can overtake a high level character if he's not careful. Also, when it comes down to NS4 going live, I don't think many people will be forgiving.

-All It would take is me raiding a cirty and a low level char shouts to the server that NS or wherever is being raided. I then can't kill the little puke to make him think twice about opening his big mouth.

-Also, If i'm in an area killing lower level enemies for less xp a pop but in larger bulk, and some low char starts stealing kills, it would suck not to be able to let him know that the only way you can stay in the area is if you're flat on you're back without a breath in your lungs.

Terminal Insanity · Post by **Terminal Insanity** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:35 am

limiting you to a lvl range you can PK soucks... there ARE alot of low lvls that practicly beg to be PKed and this would give them more reason to do it.

The DMs just need to start sorting out the lowbie PKers/Campers

Brennan068 · Post by **Brennan068** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:57 am

I agree with the people saying no level range limit on pk. Let the DMs handle it if there are real griefers. I still think a real reporting system is the right solution here, a little trending can show you who the offenders are.

Iceman points out a great strong point for lowbies in faction raids. Raise the alarm and take your lumps when you get killed for it. Hordes of lowbies (sounds like a module name eh?) can slow a raider down until a higher level defender arrives. I know, I've been in a party of lowbies that have done this. I died about 50 times that afternoon and it was probably the most fun I've had on the server yet.

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:58 am

I think its an awful idea. Besides for the fact that when you are 20+ it is posible to kill somone 5 lvls higher than you.. Its just not within the spirit of a pvp world i think..

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:43 pm

Very good points again.. and I agree that it does interfere with the realism of a PvP enabled world. It's just unfortunate when you have griefers and the like.. especially when they are camping. Clearly this is the purpose of my post and I'm glad you guys picked up on it.

I suppose a good system of preventing this sort of thing would be the best solution. A reporting system doesn't sound like a bad idea. However, I would prefer to have DM resources targeting live events and other developments geared toward our having more to do instead of policing the populace. That is why I was thinking of system based solutions.

So, any other ideas on that front? For the sake of discussion if nothing else.

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:10 pm

presently if u see somone griefing.. (which for lack of better definition we'll restrict to harassment , ie.. repeatedly doing something to the same charachter for the soul purpose to hamper, hinder, or otherwise effect a single charachter) screen shot it... if a DM WAS on and saw it they will talk to that person and take whatever other 'measures' might be needed.. post screen shots / send them to a DM and thge actions will be taken.. the DMs are really gonna get hard on harasment im thinking...
Or there is the option to just tough it out through all the grifing and harasment.. and take it as the effects of a charachter you play.. I mean.. in all seriousness its not that hard to become friends with those people.. or atleasty be amicable towards in them in such a way that they exclude you from their rampaging .. but thats no fun..

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:43 pm

Well it's a good thought....but qui is right....griefing needs to be handled on a case to case basis. Its hard to implement a blanket fix that hampers more than it helps, and i know the devs are aware of this.

Possibly a board that you can place a complaint about a griefer. After so many complaints then the person could be tagged as a griefer based on the evidence presented. Sort of like a "3 strikes you're out" rule. Obviously the lame complaints will be looked over as some users are notorious for whining too much and some users wouldn't have THAT many complaints.

Hard to say someone's not a griefer when half the server/playerbase agrees they are

Repeat offenders are easily caught, but once in a while things happen. I think I accidentally killed a guy names Seifer today (i was 15 levels his senior) because i told him to back up, and when i killed an enemy, great cleave did its job (on accident).

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:52 am

Well posting openly about a player's activities invites more or different kinds of harassment, not to mention arguements, flames, etc. If someone were to post on the boards about someone harassing them, I would highly recommend having some evidence.. such as screenshots.. and include a link to that in any posts made.

Heron · Post by **Heron** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:51 pm

Greifing? I guess I don’t understand, if they are your enemy you should be able to kill them. That’s the way the server is set-up, if it weren’t meant to be PvP the factions would be friendlier to one another rather than enemies. For example the LA would be friendly with most (perhaps enemies with SL and MA), rather than enemies of all.

From my point of view this server is set up for full PvP. After some time passes it will be mostly PvP with the new characters trying to level themselves up and not get killed.

I still propose the idea of a local variable being set (increased) on a player character when they slay a member of an enemy faction. That way the player characters that hunt in an enemy faction will themselves be hunted by the stronger members of that faction (or their ally).

I would never consider the slaying of an enemy greifing. It’s only grief if they PK within there own faction or their allies (I really don’t understand the whole unaligned faction – are they outcasts?).

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:17 pm

Heron wrote:Greifing? I guess I don’t understand, if they are your enemy you should be able to kill them. That’s the way the server is set-up, if it weren’t meant to be PvP the factions would be friendlier to one another rather than enemies. For example the LA would be friendly with most (perhaps enemies with SL and MA), rather than enemies of all.

I'm willing to bet that you do actually understand what this means, but you're just trying to make your own point (which I can see) or you're taking it too literally.

The main focus of this game is for everyone to have fun. PvP is not the only play style or situation this module is based on. Griefing (or better coined as Harassment) is continuously hunting and killing the same player over and over in such a way that it prevents them from being able to play themselves. Realistically speaking, if someone died they wouldn't respawn so this would be a non-issue. As it is, characters do respawn, but that shouldn't give license for anyone to constantly kill them over and over again. That is my only problem with PvP in the first place.

There is also the instances where higher level people hunt down and kill lower leveled people who could not possible have a chance of winning. This is also greifing or harassment in my opinion, because again, you are intentionally setting out to disrupt or prevent someone else from being able to play. No matter how good or tough your character is, you as a player do not have the right to prevent another player from an opportunity to play.

If that is the way things are supposed to be, there wouldn't be critters.. xp would be gained from PKing only. There would be no need for quests or really any other areas in the game. All you'd need is maybe a training room (where you could have training critters) and an arena or two where people can duke it out. Say maybe one playable arena area for every 10 characters online. That would be a pure PvP only environment. That is why gaming companies create first person shooter games. Those are straight PvP games. Role-playing games encompass many aspects other than PvP in general.. unless the module is specifically designed for something else (which, as I understand it.. this one is not). I could be wrong though.

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:37 pm

Oh.. I feel like I should also mention this..

I have never been harassed on this server. Even when I've been around while someone invaded a faction town I was in, I was never attacked. In fact, one fellow healed my disease for me.

So, this hasn't become a problem for me yet (thought I suspect it will since I post with my character names..

)

But I know it does happen and I have always had strong feelings on the subject that I love to debate with..

Heron · Post by **Heron** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:14 pm

RumblingSky wrote:I'm willing to bet that you do actually understand what this means, but you're just trying to make your own point (which I can see) or you're taking it too literally.

No, I’m not trying to be sly. I’m just trying to understand.

RumblingSky wrote:Griefing (or better coined as Harassment) is continuously hunting and killing the same player over and over in such a way that it prevents them from being able to play themselves. Realistically speaking, if someone died they wouldn't respawn so this would be a non-issue. As it is, characters do respawn, but that shouldn't give license for anyone to constantly kill them over and over again. That is my only problem with PvP in the first place.

They respawn back at their bind point. If they were killed by a player character they should avoid them, get help from higher-level characters in their faction, or try again to kill them. However, if a player is killed and than runs back to were their enemy is they should expect to do battle.

RumblingSky wrote:There is also the instances where higher level people hunt down and kill lower leveled people who could not possible have a chance of winning. This is also greifing or harassment in my opinion, because again, you are intentionally setting out to disrupt or prevent someone else from being able to play. No matter how good or tough your character is, you as a player do not have the right to prevent another player from an opportunity to play.

I also see this as part of the game. Now I could see it being harassment if they were slaying than rezing, than slaying them again than rezing, and so on. However, once you leave the protection of your factional guards you’re fair game.

The idea of a group of NC paladins killing all enemies (be they low or high level) they run across in the Underdark (for example) sounds like a challenge not greifing or harassment. It would be up to the minions of the Underdark to come up with a way to deal with them. Nothing makes a better ally than a common adversary.

RumblingSky wrote:If that is the way things are supposed to be, there wouldn't be critters.. xp would be gained from PKing only. There would be no need for quests or really any other areas in the game.

I disagree; the factional PvP play with the quests and critters is what attracted me to this module. I really don’t see this module set up for strict role-play nor do I see it as an arena module. It’s both, the way I see it is a factional battle module and that makes NS4 unique. It’s not a social server (like NS3 – other than the lands being similar and such this mod. is nothing like NS3). The only social aspect I see in this game is based on what faction you belong to.

RumblingSky · Post by **RumblingSky** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:26 pm

Fair enough, Heron..

The only problem I have with what you are saying involves this: "They respawn back at their bind point. If they were killed by a player character they should avoid them, get help from higher-level characters in their faction, or try again to kill them. However, if a player is killed and than runs back to were their enemy is they should expect to do battle. "

You are absolutely right. However, what if you are invading their town and that is where their bindspot is. What if they were not trying to participate in the battle at all and just go out and have some fun. Everytime they step outside, they're forced into a battle they can't win and continuously killed. Or worse, there are times when someone will simply camp bind locations.. then what are they supposed to do? Just not play for awhile?

Optionally.. one thing to help combat spawn camping is if people could bind themselves to alternate locations. Maybe have a limited use item where they could bind themselves to a location within a certain distance from a rift shard. That way, no one would really know where their specific bind point is unless they find it.. and then it could be changed. And if it was discovered, the person would have to rebind elsewhere at a later time (since they would be camped). I could actually see this as acceptable if the antagonist *really* had to search for it.. then the reward would be driving off the player for a short time and thus, decreasing the town's defenses for a time.

Heron · Post by **Heron** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:17 pm

Player characters are camping spawn points? I didn’t think of it from that angle… I suppose if a party was to invade, kill all the guards, NPCs, PCs and than camp the spawn points in the town (normally only low level characters will be bound there). That is a problem.

I guess one problem is that the higher-level characters of a faction are encouraged to bind their location outside of their faction (at least that is the case in regards to SL). There are no high level areas around the city and it is just more of an advantage to bind in Avendell or another neutral bind spot.

At this point I guess the solution is to have the factional god deal with them. Cry out for divine intervention and hope Lolth will help the campers see the error of their ways (and hope she just doesn’t think you’re a whiner and turns you into a Drider).

Some ideas…

1) Alternate binding locations (as above)

2) In the factional gods temple place a timed (to allow for normal invasions) switch (make it so that if a non-faction member touches it they take damage) of some type that will spawn additional faction guards (perhaps make them worth low or no xp so it can’t be exploited).

3) Place the hardest area’s near the faction cities (future epic areas and such), this will encourage high level PCs to bind in their own faction city.

4) Make Player Characters worth XP (CR = character level + sub-race bonus) if they are within an enemy city map.