Incremental Scale for ECL

Denort · Post by **Denort** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:55 am

I heard a few people commenting on how much harder it is for races with ECL of +3 to level. I decided to try out a drow see how challenging it was. Getting to level 3 was not too bad but by level 5 or so it was becoming quite tedious.
While a level 15 drow may be as good as a level 18 human, a level 1 drow is nowhere near as powerful as a level 4 of a non ECL race.
Maybe it could be considered to have a racial ECL increment at 10% per level? A drow would start with and ECL of 0.3 at level 1, 0.6 at level 2, 0.9 at level 3, 1.2 at level 4 and so on until 3.0 at level 10. It would help the ECL races get by the first few levels a bit quicker without having much impact on their overall rate of advancement.

In a pvp server, nothing is more annoying than being unable to assist when your faction is under attack. By level 6 or 7 most characters can start to help in some manner, even if it is just buffing, healing or getting the attention of some ungodly summon and then running like the wind. :wink:

A gradual scale for ECL would allow characters of such races to reach this level a bit easier while still making them work much harder in later levels when (for the most part) their racial bonuses really start to shine.

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:37 am

I would disagree in that i think alot of the racial bonuses are more useful at the lowr levels. By the high lvls you are casting buffs on yourself, popping buff pots, and using the better gear, which neutralizes alot of those racia l bonuses. so, i propose iof u scale something like the ECL then u would equally need to scale the racial bonuses. make the racial bonuses of some of these ECL classes increase with lvl.. then it would be worth it at a higher lvl to have the ECL of +3.

MorriganSmith · Post by **MorriganSmith** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:47 am

Well, my husband and I made two Drow chars, I a Cleric , he a fighter, we just reached level 10 after about three weeks or play.

It is hard to get used to the ECL, takes patience, and a real desire to be an actual Drow(not a elf that looks drow) . It is harder to level , that is for sure, but we are able to go and do things at a lower level then regular races though. I feel more powerful, the spell resistence rocks, and I have to say I am pleased with the way they are turning out................another few levels , and I am sure we will be creating chaos and slaying many.......oops, did I say that out loud.

mutters to herself ..... must kill them all .........must

Frain (MoTK)

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:04 pm

Id be interested ot know Morrigan in those three weeks how many horus per day you would say you averaged.

MorriganSmith · Post by **MorriganSmith** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:56 pm

Hmm, well during the week, about 2-3 hours a night , and on the weekends maybe 6, didnt really keep track but that should be a good guess.

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:35 pm

Wow, that seems awfully slow lvling even as a drow.. were u doing more adventuring and RPing than lvlving? (i onlyask out of interest because i find i can hit 16 in about a week with an ECL of 0 or 1 with 4 or so hours a day of hard lvlving)

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:51 pm

My first week I played an Aasimar (ECL+2) and got to around level 14 before things started giving me less xp, and my bonuses didn't help that much. Besides the elemental immunities and the bonuses to cha and wis, I didn't really feel they were as useful as they were earlier on...and my leveling slowed down. And I played about 4 hours a day or so.

Playing the same amount I've gotten an ECL 0 char to Level 20 in a week and 2 days. Getting to each item tier was easier to do. Once I hit 16, leveling became much easier. Getting to 16th with my Aasimar hasn't even happened yet. The mummies don't respawn fast enough

Stormwarden · Post by **Stormwarden** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:12 pm

The racial ECL is meant to be a hindrance and a challenge for experienced players. It is not meant to be easy and they should not receive special treatment.

Many players will find the leveling tedious and time-consuming but if they cannot handle it, then they need to make a human that levels normally.

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:23 pm

Storm, the point wasnt that they should get special treatment, atleats my point rather was that the 'bonuses' arent sufficient enough to necissitate some of the ECL. But this is clearly an opinion issue, and mine is that the racial bonuses arent important enough at the high lvls to make the ECL reasonable.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:47 pm

I haven't made an ECL character yet, and maybe i'll try out one later when I get the chance, just so I can see how the leveling is. But the bonuses seem fine to me.

A bunch of the human subraces get very nice elemental resistances, and the Githzerai get very nice SR. The one problem I can see with giths is that their AC bonus won't be helpful at later lvls, but it should definately make lower lvls easier. Maybe making it +2 dodge ac would be better.

Drow:

Again, great SR and their stats work out pretty well, since, they get +2 to three relatively useful stats(good all around casters or dex chars it seems) and the same penalty as other elves get to con. The will save bonus is also helpful, since it's the same given by a feat, but making it +3 at lvl 20 might help. I think this easily balances out the minor penalties in lighted areas, and is a good reward for slower lvling.

So what i don't understand is how a SR similar to a monk's isn't useful at higher lvls, and how amazing elemental resists(either 20% to several, or 50% to one) on human subraces aren't compensation for a good amount of slower lvling.

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:36 pm

well, in my opinion the current NPCs focus mostly on fire atatcks, maybe im not paying attention (aside fomr the dragon disciples) and most armour in the game has fire resistance on it already, and the SR, 30 at lvl 20.. while 'useful' isnt anything to get really worked up by when you are fighting creatures with an CR much higher than 20, especially when the 'epic' areas come out and people will level there before they hit lvl 20.. the caster has to check against the SR 1d20 + caster lvl.. that means the caster .. if its lvl 20 and not higher as it will enevitable be when people are lvling at higher lvls, can be anywhere from 20-30 which is only a 50% chance to resist spell. By lvl 20 most people who arent mages, mages will be using mantle and other buffs as will clerics, are gonna have enough HP to take a little dmg. I dont think its useful enough to explain the +3..

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:39 pm

AndrewCarr wrote:So what i don't understand is how a SR similar to a monk's isn't useful at higher lvls, and how amazing elemental resists(either 20% to several, or 50% to one) on human subraces aren't compensation for a good amount of slower lvling.

Those bonuses seem to work well versus town guards and higher level mobs, but at the moment, a level 14 character has less use of these when fighting enemies that simply deal out physical damage.

I guess you would say the bonuses taper off more towards middle levels than high levels.

Any race with a SR bonus is fair IMO. SR is huge.

Stormwarden · Post by **Stormwarden** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:33 pm

A drow at level 40 will have an SR of 50, being as I have heard they modified the code to allow a higher than 32 SR. This being the base any level 30 caster or below will have to roll a natural 20 in order to effect that person with a spell. In a PVP environment that is an extremely useful ability. A pure 40th level PC Caster will still have to roll a 10 in order to effect that drow with a spell, thats a 50% chance of failure everytime he trys to cast a spell at the drow, and even if it does pass through the resistance they still get a saving throw. Granted there are a few feats that can help penetrate the SR, but even then I dont think we'll see too many level 40 pure casters running around.

The SR is definitely worth the ECL3.

Heron · Post by **Heron** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:13 pm

How about applying the ECL to the character level in regards to item level restrictions?

So a 1st level Deep Gnome (ECL +4) could wear 5th level items (2nd level Drow, 4th level Kender, etc…).

This would allow low level characters a little edge in gear, and it would be no bonus at all at high level.

crippe13 · Post by **crippe13** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:24 pm

Just my 2 cents... The ecl penalties are coming straight from actual 3rd ed. rules.. there are a lot of things that could be tweaked for more enjoyable play, but since they have gone through all the effort of keeping things in line with 3rd ed. I think only minor changes to ecl levels to make up for abilities not available in NWN would be in order. Like I said, just my 2 cents.. I happen to like the way they have it set up right now