Heal

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:45 pm

Forget everything else I have put on the posts....I want only one thing at this point...heal to be unnerfed. I don't know any possible abuses that could occur from this spell. It would be nice to see my heal and mass heal spells, actually do as they are supposed to...heal. I don't want to be rude or anything else...but this is one of the least offensive spells (except to undead) that should be given back to clerics. They are supposed to be known for their healing powers for heavens sake (like that? its a pun:)). I don't know why, but I tihnk Heal being unnerfed (or un 3.5 converted if thats what happened) would pose little to no threat to the balance of this game.

please....

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:57 pm

I'm not sure what the problem is. My Cleric has the healing domain and I've had no problem with the spell. Perhaps the devs just made the healing domain more lucrative?

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:27 pm

From what I noticed the heal spell only heals around 120 HP's...how man HP's does your cleric have DV? That might be true...but then again, getting heal at lvl 5 used to be an awesome benefit...why? Becuase lvl 6 would be open for tons of harm spells (which used to be awesome, now just okay). If thats what happened though....whY? clerics mainstay importance is healing, when the epic levels break out, and chars are running around with 600 HP, then what do people do because a char will need 6 pots to heal them, and the cleric won't be able to heal enough damage to sustain a char....it will be to the point where dying is a better way of healing (with a ressurect spell) than actual healing. Thats not useful, nor should it happen. Im thinking long term here, because soon there will be more people joining the epic character club...and if we don't solve this problem...the monsters will have a very large bonus against parties...inneffective healers.

And DV if you have heal that makes your healing spells empowered, which means most likely your heal spells heal a max of somewhere aroun 180 to 240 HP's...still not good enough for epic lvls. As I've leveled up more and more, I've realized that the higher levels are more and more reminiscent of NS3 with lots of damage being dealt both ways and so forth....Clerics healing abilities will be rendered useless as people become more and more powerful and require better and better heal spells.

Why not make pots that have True heal, and potions of True Mass Heal (or healaga for the FF enthusiasts) for triple the regular cost of normal heal pots.

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:40 pm

I would have no problem with heal cast from a clerics memory being better. My problem would be heal potions which I think are overpowered and too common. Why would a cleric even waste a spell slot on heal when you can just use tons of heal potions?

Denort · Post by **Denort** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:17 pm

My suggestion would be to increase the effectiveness of the existing cure wounds spells a little more (I know they are already better than default), increase or remove to 150 hp cap on heal and then take potions of heal out of the game altogether.
Potions of cure critical wounds would be able to restore somewhere around 100 hp but clerics and druids would be the ones to have around for heal and mass heal. Single class clerics and druids could potentially restore as much as 400 hp with heal or mass heal.

EvilIguana966 · Post by **EvilIguana966** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:36 pm

The purpose of nerfing heal in 3.5 edition was to put some value on higher level spells. A level 6 spell shouldnt be the end all be all spell forever. Hypothetically an epic cleric would need to invest time and money in creating an epic healing spell.

If the devs could add more epic spells they could solve this issue. Or they could simply make heal be 10 pts of damage per level. A level 40 cleric would heal 400 pts. Empower that and it heals 600 pts. That would solve most of our problems.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:12 am

thats lame....Its a heal spell..>The POINT of a cleric. So what if its lvl 6..its not the end all be all. You know why? Because it isn't an offensive spell, to but a few of the monsters in NS. Honestly....heal!!! Adding spells to the game requires a hak pak from what I recall, so that is never going to happen. And what aobut greater restoration...thats a full heal and its lvl 7, yet mass heal..lvl 8 is just heal with more targets....and of course, if you die and get full rezed thats also a heal.

Its just a heal spell...and how many lvl 40 chars are there, to my knowledge none, most are high 20's or low 30's. And still thats lame. Heal is supposed to be a spell that is the foundation of the clerics powers. Its not that offensive as a weapon, and it sure as heck doesn't destroy balance to the game. Of all spells, this one doesn't deserve to be edited to 3.5, Thats why its 3.5, they are supplemental rules till 4.0 comes out.

Also, why are we "fixing" this spell when it was never broke? The more important question is what benefit did we gain from losing heal's full potential? You said that decreasing heal makes other higher lvl spells more valuable...like what? Idon't see how nerfing Heal made any of my lvl 7-9 spells any better. It made restoration, and already useful spell, no better. Why? because restoration is a MUST on this server regardless of the heal spell.

and EvilIguana your flat out wrong with your logic. Ther should be end all be all spells at lv l6. Hell, at lvl 4 you get Divine Power, which is a MUST as a cleric. as a sorc, IGMS is a MUST and its lvl 6, and the most powerful spell so far in NS from what I can tel. Call lightning is a lvl 3 spell....EVERY intelligent druid uses call lightning on NS4. Iguana, you're arguing that a spell at lvl 6 shouldn't be an awesome spell, which is just not true, if it where, then you wouldn't need lvl 1-5 spells the moment you got a lvl 6 spell. That is just plain wrong. Either you don't play spell casters on NS4, or you don't play them correctly because every caster on this server requires lower lvl spells that are EXTREMELY important. If those low lvl spells are so important, whats the probloem with Heal being on of those spells?

None.

Put old fashioned heal back in, it's just frustrating, especially since the easy get around is greater restoration which heals COMPLETELY. THis is not only inconsistent, its just bad. Please...bring back old heal.

dond · Post by **dond** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:30 am

i think i read somewhere that heal casted by a cleric heals at least 50% of the targets total hp, which is pretty durn good. healing domian heals 100%.

as for heal being the point of the cleric, LOL!

druids have heal too! (why does everyone forget about them?!)

also, clerics are already a huge unbalancing factor in the mod. their spells need to be kept in check.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:34 am

EvilIguana966 wrote:make heal be 10 pts of damage per level. A level 40 cleric would heal 400 pts. Empower that and it heals 600 pts. That would solve most of our problems.

Good point. Not to mention a healing domain cleric using empower feat should heal 900 hp (or only 800 if it doesn't totally stack).

ATI wrote:the easy get around is greater restoration which heals COMPLETELY. THis is not only inconsistent, its just bad. Please...bring back old heal.

Also a very good point.

With these two peices of info I am very sure the devs will be able to come up with a very good solution, time to lock the thread!!!

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:15 pm

Be careful DonD before i put you in check

nah just kidding

You're right druids do heal a whole lot...but that isn't their major focus, clerics are always the combat healers. I mean, today i healed and it only got me 72 heal points...thats not so cool, Maybe we could make the spell just scale so that it does 15 hp per lvl, that should be good right?

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:25 pm

Only 72 on a heal? :/ My lvl 4 cure serious spell heals from about a low of 80 to a max of around 97.

Other than that, i swear i've seen npc clerics heal 100%, or maybe they just have low hp. But a healer domain cleric i can understand healing 100%, a non healer domain on healing about 10% more than pots, and pots having their currently wacky range.

Joran · Post by **Joran** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:29 pm

From the beta forums, this is how the cure spells work now:

Joran wrote:For potions, we've reverted back to the dice system, although we've increased the dice values for each of the spells.

Minor heals 1-6, Light 3-12, Moderate 6-24, Serious 12-48, Critical 24-96, and Heal 48-192.

Casters will add their casting level to the rolled amount, and have a guaranteed minimum of 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, and 50% respectively.

Clerics with the healing domain will gain an additional percentage equal to the minimum for that level. That means that a cleric casting heal with healing domain is guaranteed to heal 100% of the target's HP.

These values also apply to damage dealt to undead. Healing domain clerics will reduce undead to 1d4 hit points with a heal spell.

And for restores:

Joran wrote:- Lesser Restore removes any score decreases: abilities, attack, damage, damage vulnerabilities, AC, saving throws, skills. It does not remove spell resistance and turn resistance penalties.

- Restoration works like Lesser, but also removes spell/turn resistance penalties, blindness/deafness, petrification, and Slow.

- Greater Restore is the only spell that can remove Level Drain and Curse. It heals all effects that the other restores heal, and restores the player to full HP. It does not cure mental conditions or conditions that Heal removes, however - e.g. Poison, Disease, Dominated, etc.

Certain conditions can't be healed by these spells, they have to be waited out or a specific nullification spell has to be cast. These include effects of physical manifestations such as Entangle (cast Freedom of Movement), Darkness (dispel or cast Ultravision), as well as mental effects that can be removed by Clarity or Remove Fear.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:32 am

Two things -

Any chance you folks might consider allowing high Heal skill characters to rez using healing kits (maybe 1x/day at 30, 2x/day at 40, 3x/day at 50, etc)?

Also, while we're on the topic of spell nullification, any chance you might take a second look at Gust of Wind? Currently, it dispels any field spell, even things like Evards or Vine Mine. Limiting it to only "gas cloud"-type spells might be an idea...

Post by **Lokey** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:41 am

Gust of wind has been updated. The public server is running behind, but there's some hardware issues we want to see to before updating.

BaconStrip · Post by **BaconStrip** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:59 pm

EvilIguana966 wrote:The purpose of nerfing heal in 3.5 edition was to put some value on higher level spells. A level 6 spell shouldnt be the end all be all spell forever. Hypothetically an epic cleric would need to invest time and money in creating an epic healing spell.

Um...time and money? Think your confusing how a cleric gets his spells and how a wizard does. One get them from their god, the other from research.

Beyond that, I don't see why you guys are arguing for a heal nerf. Sooner or later you guys are gonna need a heal from a cleric and be surprised when he says "I don't bother wasting a spell slot on that crappy spell, sorry..."