It'd be pretty neat to nerf stunning fist

[mining]

So I want your ideas on how to nerf it so it's still good, just not stupidly good.

Doesn't matter if its uncodable, the more ideas the better.

Let the ideas flow!

[dethonlegs]

If duration of stun is hard coded, can you change the DC?

Improved stunning fist

Current: Adds +2 to the DC of the character's stunning attack. This feat may be taken multiple times, to a maximum of +20.
Proposed: Adds +1 to the DC of the character's stunning attack. This feat may be taken multiple times, to a maximum of +10.

DC would cap out at about 50 for a focused stunner.

[Rufio]

I like dethonleg's suggestion the best, but I have a solution that I think should be codable:

Limit people to taking only improved stunning fist I-IV and automatically de-level any build with improved stunning fist V or greater to level 20 and allow them to keep all of their exp so they can rebuild.

It might cause some complaining among players if the change is implemented suddenly, so plenty of warning would need to be given in-game and on the forums. Hopefully no RDD's would need to be de-leveled, but I'm not aware of any RDD builds with improved stunning fist.

[mining]

One idea bouncing around is lowering uses / day - so DC can still be high, but chain stunning becomes much harder and higher AC/fortitude/Edodge/conceal is actually meaningful.

[Daral0085]

One idea bouncing around is lowering uses / day - so DC can still be high, but chain stunning becomes much harder and higher AC/fortitude/Edodge/conceal is actually meaningful.

Say, monk/2 attempts per day, and if fighter, reduce to 5 from 10? You could still chain-stun, it's just that you would only kill 1-2 people before running out rather than like 5 people. Right now it only takes me probably 2-3 stuns to kill someone.

[mining]

Good idea, if SD or if CoT, least stuns, else less than now stuns.

[Eldaquen]

How about instead of changing how stunning works from the monk end (or stunner) change how affects the victem. Once someone is stunned then they are immune to future stun attempts for x number of turns that way they not open to repeated chain stuns. Not sure how long stun lasts in rounds or turns...so unable to give number for X but recommend long enough for first stun to wear off and give victem time to do something once initial stun ends.

[Bargeld]

Knocking the ISF feat from +2 to +1 is my ideal solution, but i know it isnt the most viable answer at the moment. So instead:

Can you cast clarity, or something wimpy, onHit to dispel any initial fists, then re-apply a 1 round?

Same as above, but then attach your own modified roll at the end too? Order the application to target so it goes:
onHit { stun fist from feat, then clarity to dispel, then custom stun check vs modified dc }

Maybe add some properties to gloves to compensate? Like have the gloves read your isf feats and -1 for each. Sure you could bypass with non-punching gloves, but your ab would suffer. Fair enough maybe.

[mining]

To catch the stun event require events, and with events we could just knock off DC directly. Nice suggestion though - lots of food for thought.

[Bargeld]

What about the order of the apply of the stun? Like when does it happen in relation to other things that occur during the hit? For example, if stun is the last thing to be applied, or in a last 'phase' of a round (i'm imagining rounds like magic the gathering, lol) then I guess we are screwed. But say it happens in the initial phases of the round, can something be added to happen after it? And how?

It's difficult because I/we don't really know nwscript or how the server actually works, and that has been the real problem with stun fist all along... it has to be dealt with in a technically specific method. I can definitely see how our suggestions 'outside the box' could spark a solution though, so I'll keep thinking!

[weasel423]

give every toon a +15 to stunning fist save

[Lokey]

Event only grabs the button press, not the actual stun stuff.

Granted from there you could run a check on the intended target, but that'd be hacky with plenty of edge cases, if the stun effect actually carries any useful info like originator, feat id, or stuff like that. The only immunity would be crit immune, don't know if anything else works.

I think the better question is what makes stun OP? Stupid DC and chainability sure, think there's a few other reasons.

[mining]

• Crazy high DC, obtainable without ability investment
• Loads per day - more than any caster, and functional beyond their stun
• If you get one off, you get all of them off - stun someone then you'll chain stun them 8 times.
• Hard to remove - you need to have mad fort and clarity (iirc)
• Dev crit minus critical hit limitation + a bunch of DC.

[hond]

-change formula stun DC : 10 + half lvl+wis mod to 0 + half lvl+ wis mod...
-put a 6 seconds timer between each use like time stop...will avoid the spam...
-create a new item (like the daggers with see invisibility) with clarity usable with no umd...
-apply to stun same conditions as assassin hold effect or death effect, make him pretty useless in middle of fight...
-disabled stun VI-X and relevel the toons...

[Rufio]

The only immunity would be crit immune, don't know if anything else works.

Actually, the level 7 palemaster ability "Tough as Bone" gives immunity to stunning fist, which is before the pale master gets its critical hit immunity.

Interestingly, the "Deathless Mastery" ability (the level 10 pale master critical hit immunity), doesn't actually grant immunity to stunning fist. A pale master needs Tough as Bone to be immune to stunning fist.

I wonder if you all can use this information in some way.